[Spellyans] KK ha'n SWF - pronunciation

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Fri Aug 8 16:05:28 IST 2008


I do not believe that Middle Cornish had half-long.

Nicholas
On 8 Aug 2008, at 15:50, Harry Fraiser wrote:

> Splendid suggestion from Penny. Nicholas would be the man to show us
> how to pronounce half-long and long correctly.
>
> Harry
>
> On 8/8/08, nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ken has no half-length and no long consonants. These are the sine- 
>> qua-
>> non of KK.
>> Without them there is no KK. KK is just a new (non-traditional and  
>> non-
>> phonemic) spelling .
>> The differences you mention are marginal. They do not affect his
>> pronunciation which is UC.
>> Ken George speeks Unified Cornish.
>>
>> Nicholas Williams
>>
>> On 8 Aug 2008, at 13:57, Penny Squire wrote:
>>
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>>> You said     "... if KK is so good, why does Ken not actually speak
>>> it, rather than a rather anglicised Unified?"
>>>
>>> I wouldn't actually agree with this. As I have said before,  I don't
>>> do linguistics but there is nothing wrong with my hearing.
>>>
>>> Although my attendance at Cornish language events is rather hit-and-
>>> miss because I spend so much time working away, over the last few
>>> years I have  listened to as much live spoken Cornish as possible. I
>>> have been to several Cornish Language Weekends, Cornish language
>>> church services and the Gorsedd/Gorseth/Gorsedh (!). I have  also
>>> have managed to lay my hands on some recordings of people who use
>>> KK, UC and LC.
>>>
>>> Ken George's spoken Cornish certainly has several differences from
>>> that of Unifed users that I have heard. He pronounces <eu> in words
>>> like bleujenn where UC users say blejen, for example, and
>>> distinguishes the KK <o> and <oe> sounds where they don't because UC
>>> only has <o>.  He doesn't pronounce  'res' as if it were English
>>> 'raise' (which can't be right, surely, but all UC users say it) .
>>>
>>> His <a> doesn't sound right to me, though, here he sounds like the
>>> UC users who say it as in English 'far'  (and RP 'father') instead
>>> of as in English 'barrow' which is the recommended KK  
>>> pronunciation..
>>>
>>> It may be influence from Breton - his wife is Breton and I believe
>>> that they often speak together in Breton.
>>>
>>> In contrast, I have somewhere a copy of Rod Lyon and Julia Allard's
>>> 'Flows ha Furneth', a collection of humerous pieces. It is very
>>> lively and amusing and they speak Cornish very fluently and
>>> naturally, but their pronunciation is modern day English with a
>>> Cornish accent. Vanessa Beaman's Cornish is RP, but the Cornish
>>> heard in the Gorsedd ceremony usually sounds horribly English.
>>>
>>> It would be very helpful if those who disagree with the
>>> pronunciation of X or Y were to produce some recordings showing how
>>> they believe that Cornish should be pronounced. LC users could read
>>> Dzhuan Choy an Hor, and MC users could read a couple of hundred
>>> words from CW or something. Didn't someone suggest something similar
>>> on Cornwall 24 once upon a time?
>>>
>>> Perhaps, Nicholas, you and Michael could get the ball rolling with
>>> some MC recordings and perhaps Dan could give us his ideas on LC?
>>>
>>> It would at least give those of us who are bored with the endless
>>> 'I'm right and you are wrong' arguments over arcane linguistic
>>> arguments and IPA squiggles a chance to hear what the different
>>> ideas sound like in practice.
>>>
>>> Penny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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