[Spellyans] troll accusation

Michael Everson everson at evertype.com
Thu Aug 14 17:39:12 IST 2008

On 11 Aug 2008, at 18:31, Penny Squire wrote:

> Michael
> In a little more than 24 hours since I last posted the Spellyans  
> list has erupted with accusations of troll activity.
> I will deal briefly with the accusation against myself:
>> On 9 Aug 2008, at 16:26, Penny Squire wrote: hadn't realised that  
>> you had come to the conclusion that Jenner's phonology was correct.  
>> Perhaps it's time for his Handbook to be reprinted. That would be a  
>> splendid project for Michael! - Penny.
>>> You sound like a troll.  - Michael Everson
> This was followed by your posting:
>> Just now, a listmember wrote to me:
>>> I had concerns about Penny when I saw 'her' post yesterday  
>>> lunchtime about the recordings done by Rod and Julia -- those  
>>> recordings were done 20 years ago [...] the comments about the  
>>> Gorsedd tell me this is someone who has been a Bard for a very  
>>> long time.
>> So, Ms Penny Sqwir, your posts are now being moderated. Come clean  
>> and identify yourself or you will be unsubscribed. - Michael Everson
> It seems to me, Michael, that Eddie Climo seems to be at the root of  
> this. I suspect that he has been seething with resentment ever since  
> paid I him off with his own coin - you will remember that he made an  
> exceedingly rude attack on what I thought was a perfectly reasonable  
> posting of mine made shortly after joining the Spellyans list.
> He seems to make a habit of this sort of intemperate rudeness. The  
> insolence, sarcasm and sheer lack of respect with which he dared to  
> pick up a minor mistake which Nicholas made astonished me. I am more  
> than a little surprised that you did not haul him up for that at the  
> time.

I can accept that you might have a dislike for Eddie's sense of humour  
and satire.

However, you have not responded to my request. Rightly or wrongly, it  
has been suggested that you are someone who has been a Bard of the  
Gorseth for a very long time. Yet there is no "Penny Squire" who is a  
Bard. Is Penny Squire your real name? If not, what is it? Rightly or  
wrongly, there is doubt about this right now.

> Regarding your first troll accusation:  I fail to see what you seem  
> to find objectionable in my remarks. I said that I was surprised  
> that Nicholas believes that Jenner's phonology was correct. I had  
> assumed that his research, along with that of George, Mills,  
> Chaudhri et al. would have built on Jenner's work and advances in  
> scholarship would have resulted. If Nicholas believes that Jenner's  
> phonology is still accurate then he is entitled to that view and I  
> respect that right.

It's nothing specific. Yet there is a question.

> I certainly would like to see Jenner's Handbook reprinted. It  
> signalled the birth of the Revival and I would have thought that a  
> well produced facsimile edition would sell, given the increasing  
> interest in the language - but I am not a publisher and you are.

I think there are some other things that need to come out first.

> I had thought of unpacking Eddie's response to my posting re  
> Anglified pronunciation and showing how peurile and poorly reasoned  
> his criticisms were - except that it would be wasted upon his ego.
> As you can see from his comments (second troll accusation, above) he  
> has developed leaping to conclusions into an art form. Has it not  
> occurred to him that recordings might still be found years after  
> publication (I got my 'Flows ha Furnedh' tapes in a Truro secondhand  
> shop two years ago!) and is he not aware that the Gorsedd ceremony  
> is a public event - I have been to many, and was taken for the first  
> time by my parents when I was, I think, six or seven. And yes, I do  
> think the standard of pronunciation is generally poor and Anglified  
> - and I think anyone else with even a moderate ear for speech and   
> dialects dialects would think the same.

So you've been around the Revival for a long time. Do you know any of  
our colleagues in Agan Tavas?

> I am particularly disappointed with you, Michael, in that you saw  
> fit to publish a copy of the allegation that I might really be Paul  
> Dunbar on to Cornwall 24 ('open and honest discussion') without  
> giving me a chance to defend myself. I realise that you were  
> disturbed by Eddie's nonsense, but it it was irresponsible and  
> certainly not the best PR for Spellyans. (To be sure, Harry Frasier  
> was a phony, but that is hardly a reason for throwing troll  
> accusations around in all directions.)

Mayhap. I'd like to know who you are, though.

> I enjoyed the little bit of brainstorming I did with Craig on Jangye- 
> ryn. His enthusiam and continuing research on placenames is  
> something with which I can identify. If I leave the list I will miss  
> those enjoyable discussions.

You haven't been taken off the list.

> However I have to say that I am not convinced that the SWF can be  
> either improved or saved. I said so in one of my early postings, and  
> still think so.

I am quite convinced it can be improved, and thereby saved. What do  
you think is wrong with it?

> Therefore I am not particularly concerned as to whom you believe  
> that I am - with individuals like Eddie Climo on this list I am  
> certainly not going to make public my phone number and address!

I'll be happy to speak to you privately if you wish.

> An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who  
> posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in  
> an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat  
> room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional  
> response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Well you did start out with comments about the monarchy which many  
people complained to me about.

> I have sent this posting direct to you with a copy to Craig as I  
> have no wish to promote any more emotional responses or disruption  
> of on-topic discussion than has already occurred. You may post it on  
> the list or not as you see fit.

Transparency is as transparency does, so I have done so.

> Penny

If you are who you say you are, I'll be happy to apologize. It is  
regrettable that the seeds of distrust do plague us. But frankly I  
myself and many of my colleagues have had to put up with a lot these  
past few years. Saunders' clownish presence here, pointless as it was,  
may have let me to suspect you unjustly.

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com

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