[Spellyans] <kk> and <ck>
ajtrim at msn.com
ajtrim at msn.com
Thu Dec 18 02:04:38 GMT 2008
For what it's worth, here is my attempt:
In either Main Form or Traditional Form, we should have a double consonant
only where the SWF rules say one should be, i.e. at the end of a closed
syllable that is both stressed and where the vowel is short.
In the Main Form, the first consonant should be <k>. The second one should
be <k> unless it is pronounced [s] being before an <e, i, or y>, when it
should be <c>. But if it is pronounced [k] regardless, it should be <k>.
In the Traditional Form, the first consonant should be <c>. The second one
should be <k> unless it is pronounced [s] being before an <e, i, or y>, when
it should be <c>. But if it is pronounced [k] regardless, it should be <k>.
However, it should also be <k> in word-final position, and should be <c>
before an <a, o, u, l, or r>.
I note however that UCR, at least, has <trenkles> for "rhubarb", and this
fails the above rules.
So I think that we need at least one further rule to wrap this up.
Perhaps it should be <k> between two consonants.
We also need a rule for when <ks> or <cs> becomes <x>.
I don't think that it will be always.
Similarly for <kw> or <cw> becoming <qw>, and whether or not <qu> should be
regarded as an error.
For KS, you may want different rules regarding stress!
We also need a rule for <ch> in "technical" terms that are pronounced <k>.
We have words like "technical" and others like "tectonic".
I think that UCR had it about right.
Andrew J. Trim
From: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:09 AM
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <kk> and <ck>
> On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:43, Thomas Leigh wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:41 AM, nicholas williams
>> <njawilliams at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> Do the members of the AHG really know which words are loanwords and
>> which not?
>> Also, at what point does a loanword become a native word in the minds of
>> a language's speakers?
> When it violates Ken George's ideas of "English borrowings for which
> there are perfectly good Cornish alternatives". For my part I trust
> Tregear's choices more than I trust George's.
>> For example, when did the words "native" and "language" in my previous
>> sentence stop being French loanwords, and start being English words? How
>> can one tell?
> One can observe in the texts when "native" replaced "homely" and
> "language" "tongue", but one can only guess about speakers. Except that
> we do know in extreme bilingualism speakers will always use the word
> closest to the tip of the tongue.
>> All in all Hodge's suggestion was bizarre. Even more remarkably it was
> I suspect they were tired, and no one was there to say "hold on, now,
> this is going to suck for students, you don't want it."
> If only we'd called their bluff.
>> I have to agree. I could understand them choosing <kk> for the "main"
>> form — following KK usage — and <ck> for the "traditional" form, but to
>> impose both spellings on both orthographic varieties on the basis of
>> etymology is just, well, bizarre, as you said. I too find it amazing
>> that the AHG voted to accept it!
> I've been doing other things this evening but will forward my
> recommendations in the morning.
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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