A. J. Trim
ajtrim at msn.com
Tue Jul 1 01:19:33 IST 2008
Rule (1) is crazy for Middle Cornish folk.
Best to use <y-> for initial [I] and <i-> for initial [i:].
RLC folk could use <i> instead of <y>, throughout the system, if they want
They would then need to mark long <i> with a diacritical mark, perhaps a
circumflex, thus <î>.
Rule (2) is OK (but see (3) below.)
Not sure about bÿs/bës yet. See Note below.
Rule (3) is OK for Middle Cornish folk.
However, it would not be necessary to mark the <i> in words like Bibel and
sira, as the <i> is already regularly long [i:]. Marking is only thought to
be necessary because you want to say that the <i> in words like tiryow (from
tir) and gwiryoneth (from gwir) are short.
I would rather write these tyryow and gwyryoneth but, either way, I believe
that any confusion would be minimal.
RLC folk would need to mark these, e.g. Bîbel and sîra if they were using
<i> in place of <y> [I].
Note: Many people have problems, or mental blocks/bloody-mindedness, with
diacritical marks. Words like bÿs/bës would inevitably be written bys/bes
much of the time (as they are in the current SWF). However, the <y> is long
so they should be bïs/bës. That way, when the mark is left off we get
bis/bes which is better. For RLC folk, bis would be a definite error as for
them the <i> would be short (assuming rule (1) above.) I don't know but I
would expect RLC folk to use only the <ë> form.
Andrew J. Trim
From: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:29 PM
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] -ita
> At 18:20 +0100 2008-06-30, nicholas williams wrote:
>>KS uses y for [I] everywhere except
>>in derivatives of monosyllables in <i>, e.g. gwir, gwiryoneth; tir, tiryow
> The SWF does this.
>>and also where a final long i occurs in a stressed syllable despit,
> This is a fine distinction; it is not unrelated
> to our distinction of <ia> from <ya>.
> Pragmatically we will have to be careful laying
> out the rules, because there are overlaps.
> (1) Initially <i> is [I]; initial [i:] would be
> written <î> (modulo <ÿs/ës>). This rule increases
> the visibility of the letter <i> considerably --
> a concern many RLC users have expressed to us.
> (2) In monosyllables and their derivatives <i> is
> [i:] and <y> is [I] (modulo <bÿs>/<bës>. When
> unstressed, these <i> letters are shortened to
> (3) In polysyllables not derived from
> monosyllables, the sound is almost invariably
> [I]. In final unstressed position, <y> will be
> [I]~[@] and <i> will indiate that the vowel is
> [i:] and that the syllable is stressed
> (crodo'dil, pl. croco'dilys; con'strin, ppl
> con'strinys). Elsewhere in medial position <y>
> will be used since the vowel is almost always
> [I]; in those rarer instances where the vowel is
> [i:], it can be marked with the circumflex <î>
> (bîbel (if not beybel) sîra, personal names).
> We will deal with final position a bit later
> (please not right away). In the meantime, could
> you please think very carefully about (3) above
> and see if there are any pitfalls there.
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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