[Spellyans] -ita

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Tue Jul 1 10:55:49 IST 2008


If the expression in gwir were really *yn whyr 'truly', there would in  
all Cornish literature be at least one example
with the expected mutation after yn. There are *no examples* anywhere.
I have found the following attestations:

yn gvyr x 2
in gvyr x 1
in guir x 2
en guir x 1
yn guyr x 4
en gwyr x 1
in gwyr x 1
in gwyre x 1

Notice incidentally that <in> is as common in the texts as <yn> in  
this phrase.
Caradar had already noticed that the form was yn gwyr rather than yn  
whyr in his Supplement to Cornish Simplified. We can be quite sure  
that in gwir/yn gwyr means 'in truth' rather than 'truly'.

Nicholas


On 30 Jun 2008, at 23:36, A. J. Trim wrote:

> Yes, I think you have it about right in KS, regarding <i> and <y>,  
> though I'm still not sure about bÿs/bës words.
>
> Why are despit and constrin quoted as exceptions? Surely, these have  
> stressed <i> = [i:], and so are regular.
> I would also expect [I@] and [i:@] to be <ia> (e.g. fia "to flee"),  
> and [ja] to be <ya>(e.g. redya "to read") and I would expect final <- 
> y>, e.g. tyby "to suppose", chy "house".
>
> Initial <i> would be OK but there are exceptions (e.g. yw "is", y  
> "his", yma/ymons, ytho). These will need to be in a very short list  
> else they will need to be predictable -- "function" word is too  
> vague a term.
> What happens when a word starts with <gy-> or <gi-> under soft  
> mutation? Does it become <y-> or <i-> respectively, or do they all  
> become <i->?
> How do we know whether yn gwir is "truly" (with missing mutation) or  
> in gwir "in truth", and does "in truth" mean "truly" anyway?
> I can live with it, if that is what you want to do, but I think that  
> I would prefer not to have this initial <i> rule. It appears to be  
> cosmetic only and without function.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew J. Trim
>
>
>
> From: nicholas williams
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:20 PM
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] -ita
>
> KS uses y for [I] everywhere except
> in derivatives of monosyllables in <i>, e.g. gwir, gwiryoneth; tir,  
> tiryow
> and also where a final long i occurs in a stressed syllable despit,  
> constrin.
> initially, e.g. istyna, inclynya, in, indella, etc.
> yn adverbial is distinguished from in 'in': yn tâ but in gwir.
>
> Nicholas
>
>
> On 30 Jun 2008, at 18:16, Terry Corbett wrote:
>
>> Since we have a [I] pronunciation we should use a < y >.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:42 AM, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:
>> Yes.
>>
>> Either make the choice between <i> and <y> simple and consistent or  
>> say that either may be used optionally anywhere, or discard one and  
>> just use the other.
>> Please don't leave us with the current unpredictable mishmash.
>>
>> By the way, what is Cornish for "mishmash"? ... deray, perhaps ...  
>> or dere, or derai?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andrew J. Trim
>>
>>
>>
>>
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