[Spellyans] -ita

Jon Mills j.mills at email.com
Tue Jul 1 13:58:59 IST 2008


Ty a lever gwir.Jon

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "nicholas williams"
  To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] -ita
  Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:55:49 +0100

  If the expression in gwir were really *yn whyr 'truly', there would
  in all Cornish literature be at least one examplewith the expected
  mutation after yn. There are *no examples* anywhere. I have found the
  following attestations:
  yn gvyr x 2in gvyr x 1in guir x 2en guir x 1yn guyr x 4en gwyr x 1in
  gwyr x 1in gwyre x 1
  Notice incidentally that <in> is as common in the texts as <yn> in
  this phrase.Caradar had already noticed that the form was yn gwyr
  rather than yn whyr in his Supplement to Cornish Simplified. We can
  be quite sure that in gwir/yn gwyr means 'in truth' rather than
  'truly'.
  Nicholas

  On 30 Jun 2008, at 23:36, A. J. Trim wrote:

    Yes, I think you have it about right in KS, regarding <i> and <y>,
    though I'm still not sure about bÿs/bës words. Why are despit and
    constrin quoted as exceptions? Surely, these have stressed <i> =
    [i:], and so are regular.I would also expect [I@] and [i:@] to be
    <ia> (e.g. fia "to flee"), and [ja] to be <ya>(e.g. redya "to
    read") and I would expect final <-y>, e.g. tyby "to suppose", chy
    "house". Initial <i> would be OK but there are exceptions (e.g.
    yw "is", y "his", yma/ymons, ytho). These will need to be in a
    very short list else they will need to be predictable
    -- "function" word is too vague a term.What happens when a word
    starts with <gy-> or <gi-> under soft mutation? Does it become <y->
    or <i-> respectively, or do they all become <i->?How do we know
    whether yn gwir is "truly" (with missing mutation) or in gwir "in
    truth", and does "in truth" mean "truly" anyway?I can live with
    it, if that is what you want to do, but I think that I would
    prefer not to have this initial <i> rule. It appears to be
    cosmetic only and without function. Regards, Andrew J. Trim
    From: nicholas williamsSent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:20 PMTo:
    Standard Cornish discussion listSubject: Re: [Spellyans] -ita
    KS uses y for [I] everywhere except in derivatives of
    monosyllables in <i>, e.g. gwir, gwiryoneth; tir, tiryowand also
    where a final long i occurs in a stressed syllable despit,
    constrin.initially, e.g. istyna, inclynya, in, indella, etc.yn
    adverbial is distinguished from in 'in': yn tâ but in gwir.
    Nicholas

    On 30 Jun 2008, at 18:16, Terry Corbett wrote:

      Since we have a [I] pronunciation we should use a < y >.

      Terry

      On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 9:42 AM, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com>
      wrote:

        Yes. Either make the choice between <i> and <y> simple
        and consistent or say that either may be used optionally
        anywhere, or discard one and just use the other.Please
        don't leave us with the current unpredictable mishmash.
        By the way, what is Cornish for "mishmash"? ... deray,
        perhaps ... or dere, or derai? Regards, Andrew J. Trim


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_____________________________________
Dr. Jon Mills,
School of European Culture and Languages,
University of Kent

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