[Spellyans] Phonemic inventory

Jon Mills j.mills at email.com
Fri Jul 4 10:03:42 IST 2008


I maintain that there would be an audible difference between my
pronunciations  of [gwe:T a] and [gwe:T ha]. It is a question of
juncture. Compare the pronunciations of English 'why cheats' and 'white
sheets'. Both are [waitSi:ts]. Nevertheless there is an audible
difference. The 'because I say so' attitude is the particular problem for
Cornish at the moment. It is why there has been so much strife and
bitterness in negotiations to produce the SWF. It is why we have a SWF
that has a political rather than a sound linguistic basis. It is why we
have a Standard Written Form rather than a Single Written Form. There is
nothing wrong with saying, "This is how I pronounce Cornish, I accept
that others may prefer to pronounce Cornish differently from me, and are
entitled to hold their own opinions concerning how Cornish should be
pronounced." Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "nicholas williams"
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Phonemic inventory
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:33:38 +0100

In this matter my own speech is irrelevant. I am attempting to elucidate
how other speakers of revived Cornish speak,

  affected as they are by English. They do pronounce ha as [ha] not as
  [h@] and after [T] and other voicelessconsonants the first segment of
  ha is inaudible. 
  You would be very hard put to it to say ha after gwe:T, Jon, even
  with stressing of the ha. The h would not be heard.
  You say: Actually, I would say [diU gwe:T @ 'mænt at l] if HA is
  unstressed. And I would say [diU gwe:T ha 'mænt at l] if HA is stressed.And
  then you say: A problem with inventing examples such as these is that
  one is effectively saying that such-and-such a word is pronounced
  like this because I say so.True.
  We are all guilty of this 'because I say so' attitude —and
  indeed without native speakers we have no choice.In traditional
  Cornish ha no doubt had several shapes: [ha, hae, h@, a, @].
  It still seems to me better (and I am being prescriptive) to assume
  that the vowel in <ha> is /a/ rather than schwa.
  Nicholas

  On 4 Jul 2008, at 09:10, Jon Mills wrote:

    Nicholas did not demonstrate minimal contrast with all the other
    vowels of Cornish.

    Actually, I would say [diU gwe:T @ 'mænt at l] if HA is unstressed.
    And I would say [diU gwe:T ha 'mænt at l] if HA is stressed.

    A problem with inventing examples such as these is that one is
    effectively saying that such-and-such a word is pronounced like
    this because I say so.

    Jon

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>

      To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>

      Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Phonemic inventory

      Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:50:39 +0100



      At 07:44 +0000 2008-07-04, Jon Mills wrote:

        In order to determine whether schwa is a phoneme in
        Cornish it is

        necessary to demonstrate minimal contrast with all the
        other

        vowels. It is often said that schwa is not a phoneme of
        English

        because there is no minimal contrast pairs between [@]
        and [V] in

        unstressed syllables.


      But Nicholas just did, did he not?


      [diU gwe:T a 'mænt at l]


      [In 'gwET@ pre:z]



      --

      Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com


      _______________________________________________

      Spellyans mailing list

      Spellyans at kernowek.net

      http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net






    _____________________________________
    Dr. Jon Mills,
    School of European Culture and Languages,
    University of Kent


    --
    Be Yourself @ mail.com!
    Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
    Get a Free Account at www.mail.com


    _______________________________________________
    Spellyans mailing list
    Spellyans at kernowek.net
    http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net



  _______________________________________________
  Spellyans mailing list
  Spellyans at kernowek.net
  http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net



_____________________________________
Dr. Jon Mills,
School of European Culture and Languages,
University of Kent

-- 
Be Yourself @ mail.com!
Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
Get a Free Account at www.mail.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://kernowek.net/pipermail/spellyans_kernowek.net/attachments/20080704/f8a90844/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Spellyans mailing list