[Spellyans] Fw: Re: All these I's and Y's etc
everson at evertype.com
Sun Jul 6 21:17:23 IST 2008
At 12:44 +0000 2008-07-06, Mary Williams wrote:
>I understand you want to show which ones are
>long sounds. You could mark them like UC and
>Welsh do, (put hats on them) or you could do it
>like KK where its short if there's more than one
>other letter before the next vowel, or for i and
>y you could say that i is always long and y is
No, that's not how it is done. The *general* rule
in both the SWF and in KS is that vowels are long
when they precede voiced consonants, and they are
short when they precede voiceless consonants.
>But then why are you putting hats and things on i and y?
The hat (circumflex ^) is only put on the i in
words of more than one syllable where the i would
normally shorten but is actually long. For
instance, the word <bibel> would be pronounced
like English "bibble" (according the the rules of
SWF and KS) but if we mark it <bîbel> that will
show that its pronounced like "beeble". The SWF
can't make that distinction. We make it because
we consider that a fault.
>I'm completely foxed by the double dots. I think
>you must be trying to do too many things at
>once, so they all get muddled up. Does y with
>dots sound the same as y without, same for e?
Y with dots sounds like the vowel in English
"dee" or English "day". E with dots also sounds
like the vowel in English "dee" or English "day".
You should write which ever one you use. If you
say "beez" for 'world', write <bÿs>. If you say
"bayz", write <bës>. Either way you will be able
to recognize what someone else has written.
>If e with dots is for Late Cornish people not to
>have to write y for the 'blunt i-sound', what's
>y with dots needed for? Or is one long and the
>other short ...
The dots are there so that Late people can write
<bës> because that's what they say ("bayz"). But
Middle people will know that this is what they
would pronounce as "beez". Remember, there are
words which everyone, Middle and Late, pronounce
the same. Everybody pronounces <mis> 'month" like
"meez". Everybody pronounces <res> 'necessary'
like "rayz". Y with dots and E with dots is used
on words which could be one thing or another.
In a previous version of KS we wanted to write
<beis> for these words, so there would be one
spelling even though it could be both "beez" or
"bayz", but that didn't get selected for the SWF.
So we use the dots to distinguish <mis> and <res>
words (with no alternation) from <bÿs>~<bës>
words (with alternation)
>I didn't have any real problems with the other
>systems, but so far this is 'as clear as mud'.
>Just if it's too difficult people won't use it ,
>or they'll ignore all the funny marks and guess.
As I said, I think it's easy enough to get used
to. I'll revise the Olly Orsyk story and post it.
Do you prefer <bÿs> pronunciation or <bës>
pronunciation? And do you prefer pre-occlusion
(mabm) or non-pre-occlusion? (I ask because I
want to make it easiest for you.)
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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