[Spellyans] Fw: Re: All these I's and Y's etc
marywilliams230 at yahoo.co.uk
Mon Jul 7 13:22:24 IST 2008
I'm not very knowledgeable about Late Cornish, so I've just had a look
at my copy of Jowann Chi an Hordh which has a exact copy of Mr
Llwyd's text alongside how we write it now. I can see now how most of
the words match up and wherever we have an "i" he puts an "i" too or
"ei" at the end of words, and for our "y" he nearly always writes "e"
and sometimes puts a hat on it. So if you want to put dots on all the
"y"s that turn into "e" that's nearly all of them, and then you can't
have your hat's too can you? So wouldn't it be better to mark the "y"
that stay "y", if there really are any? But can this be right, because
I see all the little words like "yn" and "y" go to "en" and "e" and so
on. So if an important word like "bys" for "world" gets turned into
"bez" then shouldn't a little word like "bys" for "to" get changed as
well? Just seems common sense to me (but then what do I know?) I don't
think I've ever muddled up these words, I don't know the clever way to
say it, but they're just not words you confuse, they don't come in the
same places if you follow me.
Now I can see if some people can't manage to say the "y" sound (like
"fear beer" without the r's) you could tell them say "e" and they'd be
no worse off than the Late Cornish people, but they could still write
"y" couldn't they? And if you'd learned Late then how would you know
which "e" are our "y"s? I'm asking how a Late person would know where
to put your dots. And do you really think they'd go to the trouble? I
don't. And anyway if they wanted to show the difference they could just
type a "y" like we do. I've no idea how to get dots on top of things
Well maybe I really can't understand all this, but I've never even
imagined saying "bibble" for "bibel" wherever did you get that idea
from? I don't think Cornish even has a double b. And isn't b what you
mean by a voiced sound, so you say the vowel before ought to be long?
I'm sorry, but the reason I never got very far with UC was because we
never really knew how to say anything. All the books contradicted each
other and sometimes contradicted themselves! So KK was really a
godsend. If you want to beat that then you'll have to give clear
instructions that ordinary learners (and teachers too) can follow. All
this "well you can do this or then again you can do that" doesn't work.
All you clever people can argue all day if you like but beginners need
to be told "this is right and that's wrong" otherwise they'll give up.
--- On Sun, 6/7/08, Michael Everson <everson at evertype.com> wrote:
From: Michael Everson <everson at evertype.com>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Fw: Re: All these I's and Y's etc
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Date: Sunday, 6 July, 2008, 7:41 PM
At 19:29 +0000 2008-07-06, Tom Trethewey wrote:
> >As Michael said
>>"If you prefer to say [i:], you should write <bÿs>."
>>"If you prefer to say [e:], you should write <bës>."
>What about those who prefer to say [I:]?
Do you know anyone who actually manages to do so?
I am informed that every KK user either says [i:]
(because of Unified Cornish) or they
misunderstand the "recommended pronunciation" and
they simply say [I].
The SWF pays lip-service to this [I:], in fact
ignoring UC [i:] -- which is objectionable
enough. And then the SWF fails to distinguish
between <bÿs> 'world' and <bys> 'but'. Even if
some people want to say [bI:z], <bÿs> still lets
them distinguish it from <bys> 'but' which is
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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