[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Thu Jul 10 18:30:37 IST 2008


The surname is Ó Riagáin. No apostrophe please. Ó means
'grandson, descendant'. The apostrophe comes about because
Anglophones thought it was like the o' in John O' Groats or Will-o'- 
the-Wisp.
It isn't.
Surnames in Ó are very troublesome.
A man called Pádraig Ó Shúilleabháin would have a daughter
called, say, Mairéad Ní Shúilleabháin but his wife would be, say,
Síle Uí Shúilleabháin.

Nicholas

On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:57, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

>
>
> Holidaying in Cornwall, are you?
>
> Yes, I, too, understand that Fishman and Pultz bailed out.  It was  
> never
> really explained why and, after Tremough, O'Riogain and Strubell also
> ducked for cover.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Penny Squire wrote:
>> That's odd. You got a copy of my posting, so did I, but nothing
>> appeared on the list. Glitch in the software? Attention, please, list
>> owner!
>>
>> Re linguists: Fishman and Pultz bailed out halfway through, I  
>> understand.
>>
>> From what I have Googled I would not have thought that the rest were
>> terribly eminent and with zilch experience in languages revived from
>> texts.
>>
>> Gotta go - bye guys, back whenever put probably not with suntan
>>
>> Penny
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Harry Fraiser <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, 10 July, 2008 4:48:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>
>> Surely these Brook and Ansari people wouldn't be allowed to get away
>> with such a plot? After all, the linguists were pretty eminent, I
>> believe.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On 7/10/08, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com
>> <mailto:pennysquire at ymail.com>> wrote:
>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro
>> between
>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in touch
>> than I
>>> would have preferred.
>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through  
>>> any and
>>> every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition to
>>> actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as
>> looking
>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a
>> political
>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government money" -
>> great for
>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so great for  
>>> the
>>> language.
>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money  
>>> on
>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and
>> homegrown
>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are not too
>> expert,
>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric Brook is,
>> after
>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know about La
>> Ansari
>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and Bert
>> Biscoe lost
>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously failed
>> to come
>>> to any sort of understanding about the language.
>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
>>> Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have
>> seen more
>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside privy.
>> I'm not a
>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were, as my
>> uncle Tony
>>> the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity linguists  
>>> aren't
>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which led
>> to the
>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public  
>>> consultation
>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say which is
>> totally
>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan which  
>>> please
>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build after
>> going way
>>> over budget.
>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of
>> Brythonic
>>> languages would tear it apart.
>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>> orthography to
>>> reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up on
>> divergent
>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most crazy
>> linguistic
>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel.. What mutt
>> dreamt that
>>> one up?
>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
>>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>> pronunciation. Go
>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured through the postings on
>> this list -
>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using
>> Kernewek
>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>>> group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and
>> why it
>>> differs from KK.
>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my
>> return.
>>> Penny
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com <mailto:j.mills at email.com>>
>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net
>> <mailto:spellyans at kernowek.net>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster,  
>>> Penny.
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Penny Squire"
>>> To: spellyans at kernowek.net <mailto:spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a while,
>> partly
>>> through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at everything I could
>> lay my
>>> hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in and out of Cornwall a lot
>> over the
>>> past few years, so classes and exams were out, and conversational
>> experience
>>> has been crammed in whenever possible. Hopefully this may change  
>>> before
>>> long.
>>>
>>> I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and there
>> and I
>>> have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am reasonably aware of the
>>> different spellings. I have not studied linguistics but have a
>> smattering of
>>> languages and am pretty good at hearing differences in dialects.
>>>
>>> In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be
>> fixed, but I
>>> gather that some believe that it may be possible.  I'm willing to  
>>> hear
>>> everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
>>>
>>> Penny
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> _____________________________________
>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>>> University of Kent
>>>
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