[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

Craig Weatherhill weatherhill at freenet.co.uk
Thu Jul 10 19:40:32 IST 2008

Ah, but now we're getting to it, Nicholas.  "Prince of Wales" is a 
figurehead title and Wales is the domain of his mother.

"Duke of Cornwall" is the senior title of the two because he is the 
quasi-sovereign of Cornwall which is a palatine state extra-territorial 
to the English crown.  The Queen has no jurisdiction west of the Tamar's 
east bank.  This is all laid out in the successful submission of the 
Duchy's Attorney-General, Thomas Pemberton-Leigh in the Duchy v Crown 
Foreshore Dispute 1855-59 and presently evident too: Tamar Bridge Act 
1998, intestate estates, right of wreck, even sturgeons going to the 
Duke not the Queen.  Foreshore and mineral ownership and even the extant 
Duchy Charters lay it out quite firmly that no agent of the Crown can 
step onto Cornish soil without the express written permission of both 
the Duke and Cornwall's legitimate parliament (which was put into a 
moribund state by a previous Duke).  So, what are HM Revenue and Customs 
doing here?

Not a lot to do with Cornish orthography but an interesting aside.


nicholas williams wrote:
> The name of the Duke of Cornwall was never either Saxe-Coburg or  
> Battenberg. Battenburg is a cake.
> The surname of the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was Wettin. The name of  
> the house
> was changed from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor and the surname was  
> changed from Wettin
>   to Windsor in 1917.
> The surname of the Duke of Edinburgh was actually Glücksburg, because  
> his father
> was Prince Andrew of Greece, originally of the royal house of Denmark.
> The Duke adopted the English form of his mother's surname Battenberg  
> before he married Princess Elizabeth.
> Monarchs and Princes take as surname the name of their domains.
> There is nothing either unusual or sinister about it.
> Nicholas
> On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:52, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>> Yes, Penny, I've read John Angarrack's latest as well - and have good
>> reason to know that he has very much hit upon the truth.  The  
>> "Windsor"
>> bit is intriguing (although his real surname is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha or,
>> paternally, Battenburg) - so how come his sons are William and Harry
>> Wales?  What is that about?  Is it a legal change of name under Deed
>> Poll?  Or, basically, why?
>> KK pronunciation is not an easy subject, because there is more than
>> one.  There is the pronunciation recommended by Ken George in his
>> published material - and there is that which is used by almost every  
>> KK
>> user, including Ken George which is, in fact, the pronunciation of
>> Unified Cornish.
>> The SWF with traditional forms is not, in my view, a disaster.  There
>> are things that are fundamentally wrong with it, hence this Spellyans
>> list, but nothing that can't be put right.  The real disaster is the
>> fact that there are two forms, the "main" form retaining some KK
>> graphs.  I presume this is why they dropped the original title  
>> "Single"
>> Written Form and replaced it with "Standard" Written Form.
>> Craig (Marhak on C24, if you hadn't already twigged)
>> Penny Squire wrote:
>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro
>>> between Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in
>>> touch than I would have preferred.
>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through any
>>> and every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition
>>> to actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as
>>> looking at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a
>>> political agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government
>>> money" - great for the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council,
>>> not so great for the language.
>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money on
>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and
>>> homegrown experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that  
>>> are
>>> not too expert, produce a shambles and really stuff the language") -
>>> Eric Brook is, after all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who
>>> doesn't know about La Ansari and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be
>>> on this list!) and Bert Biscoe lost the plot on the Assembly campaign
>>> long ago and has obviously failed to come to any sort of  
>>> understanding
>>> about the language.
>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
>>> Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have  
>>> seen
>>> more valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside  
>>> privy.
>>> I'm not a linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were,
>>> as my uncle Tony the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity
>>> linguists aren't covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which led
>>> to the SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public
>>> consultation exercises which are a total sham - the public has its  
>>> say
>>> which is totally ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous
>>> plan which please nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb
>>> to build after going way over budget.
>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of
>>> Brythonic languages would tear it apart.
>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>>> orthography to reflect how second language learners and speakers
>>> brought up on divergent phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be  
>>> the
>>> single most crazy linguistic  idea since whoever it was built the
>>> tower of Babel. What mutt dreamt that one up?
>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
>>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>>> pronunciation. Go to the top of the class! I have laboured through  
>>> the
>>> postings on this list - I think you need to reiterate it - in  
>>> capitals!
>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using
>>> Kernewek Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>>> group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and
>>> why it differs from KK.
>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my
>>> return.
>>> Penny
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com>
>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>> I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster, Penny.
>>> Jon
>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>    From: "Penny Squire"
>>>    To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>    Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>    Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
>>>    Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a
>>>    while, partly through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at
>>>    everything I could lay my hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in
>>>    and out of Cornwall a lot over the past few years, so classes and
>>>    exams were out, and conversational experience has been crammed in
>>>    whenever possible. Hopefully this may change before long.
>>>    I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and
>>>    there and I have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am
>>>    reasonably aware of the different spellings. I have not studied
>>>    linguistics but have a smattering of languages and am pretty good
>>>    at hearing differences in dialects.
>>>    In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be
>>>    fixed, but I gather that some believe that it may be possible.
>>>    I'm willing to hear everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
>>>    Penny
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>>> University of Kent
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