[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

Ken MacKinnon kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
Fri Jul 11 10:27:41 IST 2008

It was Chaspar Pult (not 'Pultz').  I am not sure why he 'baled out' but he was recommended as having eminent experience in establishing a standard Romantsch ' Romantsch Grishun' on the basis of three existing dialects.

Fishman baled out owing to an accident (fall in bathroom).  He is in in his eighties and it shook him up - decided he was not making any further transatlantic forays.   Having recently had a similar accident in a Glasgow hotel it is not funny and has concentrated my own mind somewhat on my own activities.

The linguistic eminence of the remainder may be a matter for personal opinion - or a matter of the deficiencies of Google.  In my own view in this case most definitely the latter.

- an Ken ken

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
Tel: 01349 - 863460
E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Penny Squire 
  To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
  Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

  That's odd. You got a copy of my posting, so did I, but nothing appeared on the list. Glitch in the software? Attention, please, list owner!

  Re linguists: Fishman and Pultz bailed out halfway through, I understand. 

  From what I have Googled I would not have thought that the rest were terribly eminent and with zilch experience in languages revived from texts.

  Gotta go - bye guys, back whenever put probably not with suntan


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Harry Fraiser <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
  To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
  Sent: Thursday, 10 July, 2008 4:48:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

  Surely these Brook and Ansari people wouldn't be allowed to get away
  with such a plot? After all, the linguists were pretty eminent, I


  On 7/10/08, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com> wrote:
  > Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro between
  > Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in touch than I
  > would have preferred.
  > Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through any and
  > every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition to
  > actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as looking
  > at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
  > From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a political
  > agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government money" - great for
  > the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so great for the
  > language.
  > I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money on
  > conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and homegrown
  > experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are not too expert,
  > produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric Brook is, after
  > all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know about La Ansari
  > and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and Bert Biscoe lost
  > the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously failed to come
  > to any sort of understanding about the language.
  > Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
  > Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
  > I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have seen more
  > valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside privy. I'm not a
  > linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were, as my uncle Tony
  > the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity linguists aren't
  > covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
  > Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which led to the
  > SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public consultation
  > exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say which is totally
  > ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan which please
  > nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build after going way
  > over budget.
  > As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of Brythonic
  > languages would tear it apart.
  > I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an orthography to
  > reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up on divergent
  > phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most crazy linguistic
  >  idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel.. What mutt dreamt that
  > one up?
  > Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
  > pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on pronunciation. Go
  > to the top of the class! I have laboured through the postings on this list -
  > I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
  > As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using Kernewek
  > Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
  > group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and why it
  > differs from KK.
  > I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my return.
  > Penny
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com>
  > To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
  > Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
  > I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster, Penny.
  > Jon
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Penny Squire"
  > To: spellyans at kernowek.net
  > Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
  > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
  > Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a while, partly
  > through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at everything I could lay my
  > hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in and out of Cornwall a lot over the
  > past few years, so classes and exams were out, and conversational experience
  > has been crammed in whenever possible. Hopefully this may change before
  > long.
  > I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and there and I
  > have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am reasonably aware of the
  > different spellings. I have not studied linguistics but have a smattering of
  > languages and am pretty good at hearing differences in dialects.
  > In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be fixed, but I
  > gather that some believe that it may be possible.  I'm willing to hear
  > everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
  > Penny
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