[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

Ken MacKinnon kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
Fri Jul 11 10:45:56 IST 2008

It's the army basically.  And if you have ever served time in the army it is 
only one of any number of batty things.

servitudes et gloires militaires -  an Ken ken

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
Tel: 01349 - 863460
E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

> Yes, Penny, I've read John Angarrack's latest as well - and have good
> reason to know that he has very much hit upon the truth.  The "Windsor"
> bit is intriguing (although his real surname is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha or,
> paternally, Battenburg) - so how come his sons are William and Harry
> Wales?  What is that about?  Is it a legal change of name under Deed
> Poll?  Or, basically, why?
> KK pronunciation is not an easy subject, because there is more than
> one.  There is the pronunciation recommended by Ken George in his
> published material - and there is that which is used by almost every KK
> user, including Ken George which is, in fact, the pronunciation of
> Unified Cornish.
> The SWF with traditional forms is not, in my view, a disaster.  There
> are things that are fundamentally wrong with it, hence this Spellyans
> list, but nothing that can't be put right.  The real disaster is the
> fact that there are two forms, the "main" form retaining some KK
> graphs.  I presume this is why they dropped the original title "Single"
> Written Form and replaced it with "Standard" Written Form.
> Craig (Marhak on C24, if you hadn't already twigged)
> Penny Squire wrote:
>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro
>> between Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in
>> touch than I would have preferred.
>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through any
>> and every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition
>> to actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as
>> looking at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a
>> political agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government
>> money" - great for the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council,
>> not so great for the language.
>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money on
>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and
>> homegrown experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are
>> not too expert, produce a shambles and really stuff the language") -
>> Eric Brook is, after all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who
>> doesn't know about La Ansari and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be
>> on this list!) and Bert Biscoe lost the plot on the Assembly campaign
>> long ago and has obviously failed to come to any sort of understanding
>> about the language.
>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
>> Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have seen
>> more valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside privy.
>> I'm not a linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were,
>> as my uncle Tony the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity
>> linguists aren't covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which led
>> to the SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public
>> consultation exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say
>> which is totally ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous
>> plan which please nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb
>> to build after going way over budget.
>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of
>> Brythonic languages would tear it apart.
>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>> orthography to reflect how second language learners and speakers
>> brought up on divergent phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the
>> single most crazy linguistic  idea since whoever it was built the
>> tower of Babel. What mutt dreamt that one up?
>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>> pronunciation. Go to the top of the class! I have laboured through the
>> postings on this list - I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using
>> Kernewek Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>> group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and
>> why it differs from KK.
>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my
>> return.
>> Penny
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com>
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>> I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster, Penny.
>> Jon
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     From: "Penny Squire"
>>     To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>>     Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>     Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
>>     Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a
>>     while, partly through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at
>>     everything I could lay my hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in
>>     and out of Cornwall a lot over the past few years, so classes and
>>     exams were out, and conversational experience has been crammed in
>>     whenever possible. Hopefully this may change before long.
>>     I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and
>>     there and I have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am
>>     reasonably aware of the different spellings. I have not studied
>>     linguistics but have a smattering of languages and am pretty good
>>     at hearing differences in dialects.
>>     In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be
>>     fixed, but I gather that some believe that it may be possible.
>>     I'm willing to hear everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
>>     Penny
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>> _____________________________________
>> Dr.. Jon Mills,
>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>> University of Kent
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