[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

Ken MacKinnon kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
Fri Jul 11 10:48:10 IST 2008


Unfortunately not holidaying in Cornwall. I should have made it for a 
fortnight's caravanning about now - but the Glasgow incident has put paid to 
that.  Still hoping to make it though.

- an Ken ken


(Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
Tel: 01349 - 863460
E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire


>
>
> Holidaying in Cornwall, are you?
>
> Yes, I, too, understand that Fishman and Pultz bailed out.  It was never
> really explained why and, after Tremough, O'Riogain and Strubell also
> ducked for cover.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Penny Squire wrote:
>> That's odd. You got a copy of my posting, so did I, but nothing
>> appeared on the list. Glitch in the software? Attention, please, list
>> owner!
>>
>> Re linguists: Fishman and Pultz bailed out halfway through, I understand.
>>
>> From what I have Googled I would not have thought that the rest were
>> terribly eminent and with zilch experience in languages revived from
>> texts.
>>
>> Gotta go - bye guys, back whenever put probably not with suntan
>>
>> Penny
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Harry Fraiser <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, 10 July, 2008 4:48:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>
>> Surely these Brook and Ansari people wouldn't be allowed to get away
>> with such a plot? After all, the linguists were pretty eminent, I
>> believe.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On 7/10/08, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com
>> <mailto:pennysquire at ymail.com>> wrote:
>> > Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro
>> between
>> > Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in touch
>> than I
>> > would have preferred.
>> > Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through any and
>> > every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition to
>> > actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as
>> looking
>> > at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>> > From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a
>> political
>> > agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government money" -
>> great for
>> > the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so great for the
>> > language.
>> > I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money on
>> > conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and
>> homegrown
>> > experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are not too
>> expert,
>> > produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric Brook is,
>> after
>> > all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know about La
>> Ansari
>> > and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and Bert
>> Biscoe lost
>> > the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously failed
>> to come
>> > to any sort of understanding about the language.
>> > Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
>> > Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>> > I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have
>> seen more
>> > valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside privy.
>> I'm not a
>> > linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were, as my
>> uncle Tony
>> > the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity linguists aren't
>> > covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>> > Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which led
>> to the
>> > SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public consultation
>> > exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say which is
>> totally
>> > ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan which please
>> > nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build after
>> going way
>> > over budget.
>> > As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of
>> Brythonic
>> > languages would tear it apart.
>> > I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>> orthography to
>> > reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up on
>> divergent
>> > phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most crazy
>> linguistic
>> >  idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel.. What mutt
>> dreamt that
>> > one up?
>> > Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
>> > pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>> pronunciation. Go
>> > to the top of the class! I have laboured through the postings on
>> this list -
>> > I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>> > As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using
>> Kernewek
>> > Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>> > group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and
>> why it
>> > differs from KK.
>> > I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my
>> return.
>> > Penny
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com <mailto:j.mills at email.com>>
>> > To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net
>> <mailto:spellyans at kernowek.net>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster, Penny.
>> > Jon
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Penny Squire"
>> > To: spellyans at kernowek.net <mailto:spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> > Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>> > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a while,
>> partly
>> > through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at everything I could
>> lay my
>> > hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in and out of Cornwall a lot
>> over the
>> > past few years, so classes and exams were out, and conversational
>> experience
>> > has been crammed in whenever possible. Hopefully this may change before
>> > long.
>> >
>> > I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and there
>> and I
>> > have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am reasonably aware of the
>> > different spellings. I have not studied linguistics but have a
>> smattering of
>> > languages and am pretty good at hearing differences in dialects.
>> >
>> > In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be
>> fixed, but I
>> > gather that some believe that it may be possible.  I'm willing to hear
>> > everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
>> >
>> > Penny
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _____________________________________
>> > Dr. Jon Mills,
>> > School of European Culture and Languages,
>> > University of Kent
>> >
>> > --
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