[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Fri Jul 11 11:41:18 IST 2008


The Commission tacitly admit that their report is politically motivated.
They rule KS out of court in the document because of "the treatment of  
vowels" (a meaningless statement, since they do not explain it)
and then they give the real reason: that one of the people most  
associated with KS was the most vociferous opponent of KK.
They dion't mention me by name, but they mean me.
What the Commission say therefore was that KS was unacceptable because  
Nicholas Williams had a hand in it.
Albert Bock himself (one of the authors of SWF) admitted privately  
that KS was the best orthography for Cornish.
Moreover both I and Michael Everson were blocked again and again from  
the SWF discussions.
The SWF was politically driven. It was not created on the basis of  
linguistic criteria.
Is it any wonder it is so flawed?

Nicholas Williams


On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:12, Ken MacKinnon wrote:

> Yes - but not all of them were let into the room!
>
> - an Ken ken
>
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Fraiser" <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>
>
>> Surely these Brook and Ansari people wouldn't be allowed to get away
>> with such a plot? After all, the linguists were pretty eminent, I
>> believe.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On 7/10/08, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com> wrote:
>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and fro  
>>> between
>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in touch  
>>> than I
>>> would have preferred.
>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing through  
>>> any and
>>> every discussion I could access on what was going on (in addition to
>>> actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as well as
>>> looking
>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been following a
>>> political
>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government money" -  
>>> great for
>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so great for  
>>> the
>>> language.
>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the money  
>>> on
>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers and
>>> homegrown
>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are not too
>>> expert,
>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric Brook  
>>> is, after
>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know about La  
>>> Ansari
>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and Bert  
>>> Biscoe
>>> lost
>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously  
>>> failed to
>>> come
>>> to any sort of understanding about the language.
>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if Big
>>> Ears Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and have  
>>> seen
>>> more
>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside privy.  
>>> I'm not
>>> a
>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were, as my  
>>> uncle
>>> Tony
>>> the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity linguists  
>>> aren't
>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process which  
>>> led to
>>> the
>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public  
>>> consultation
>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say which is
>>> totally
>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan which  
>>> please
>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build after  
>>> going
>>> way
>>> over budget.
>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a knowledge of
>>> Brythonic
>>> languages would tear it apart.
>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an  
>>> orthography
>>> to
>>> reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up on  
>>> divergent
>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most crazy
>>> linguistic
>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel. What mutt dreamt
>>> that
>>> one up?
>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect that it was
>>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on  
>>> pronunciation.
>>> Go
>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured through the postings on  
>>> this
>>> list -
>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish using  
>>> Kernewek
>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>>> group is to reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where  
>>> and why
>>> it
>>> differs from KK.
>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up on my
>>> return.
>>> Penny
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com>
>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008 8:44:02 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to hear why you think the SWF is a disaster,  
>>> Penny.
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Penny Squire"
>>> To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>>> Subject: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:43:08 +0000 (GMT)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, I'm Penny Squire and I've been studying Cornish for a while,
>>> partly
>>> through KDL using Kemmyn and partly by looking at everything I  
>>> could lay
>>> my
>>> hands on.  Unfortunately I have been in and out of Cornwall a lot  
>>> over
>>> the
>>> past few years, so classes and exams were out, and conversational
>>> experience
>>> has been crammed in whenever possible. Hopefully this may change  
>>> before
>>> long.
>>>
>>> I also have some UC and LC material which I picked up here and  
>>> there and
>>> I
>>> have looked at some of the MC texts, so I am reasonably aware of the
>>> different spellings. I have not studied linguistics but have a  
>>> smattering
>>> of
>>> languages and am pretty good at hearing differences in dialects.
>>>
>>> In my opinion the SWF is a disaster! I don't see how it can be  
>>> fixed, but
>>> I
>>> gather that some believe that it may be possible.  I'm willing to  
>>> hear
>>> everyone's views - which is why I'm here.
>>>
>>> Penny
>>>
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>>>
>>> _____________________________________
>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>>> University of Kent
>>>
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