[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Fri Jul 11 12:31:55 IST 2008


The credit for the appearance of Testament Noweth goes to Michael.
I am responsible only for the mistakes.

Nicholas


On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:27, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

> Unfortunately, Nicholas, I've seen it.  Just like their version of
> Bewnans Ke, it is the exact opposite of your Testament Noweth which
> merited the description that one commentator gave to it : "the most
> beautiful book ever written in Cornish".  I showed your TN to my
> all-too-frequent JW visitors (when will they accept that I will never,
> ever, subscribe to any organised religion?), and they went into  
> raptures
> about it.
>
> Craig
>
>
> nicholas williams wrote:
>> He did not understand that KK was controversial.
>> Unlike Rowan Williams, he did not allow his words to be translated
>> into KK.
>> See the Kesva's Testament Nowydh (if you must—it is dreadful in every
>> possible way).
>>
>> Nicholas
>> -----------
>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:05, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On the downside, he also contributed to Ken George's dictionary ("An
>>> Gerlyver Kres"): Page 2 - "The publication of this book has been
>>> supported by a donation from H.R.H. the Duke of Cornwall".
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> nicholas williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know, Ken, that his great-great-grandfather Edward VII  
>>>> subsidised
>>>> Dwelly's Gaelic dictionary.
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas
>>>>
>>>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:42, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> He turned up at the Dingwall Mod in 1991 and got up in the High
>>>>> Street here
>>>>> and gave a pretty good speech all in Gaelic.  So although I am no
>>>>> royalist
>>>>> myself, full marks for 'going the extra mile', taking his Duke of
>>>>> Rothesay
>>>>> and Lord of the Isles titles seriously
>>>>>
>>>>> - an Ken ken
>>>>>
>>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
>>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>>> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
>>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Harry Fraiser" <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, that does seem rather unfair. After all, he has insisted  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> Cornish be used on the Duchy of Cornwall website!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/10/08, nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And by me. I live in Ireland, not Cornwall, and living as expat
>>>>>>> here I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> become quite a royalist. I have a high opinion of the Prince of
>>>>>>> Wales/
>>>>>>> Duke of Cornwall and
>>>>>>> find insults to the royal family deeply offensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicholas Williams
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:16, Owen Cook wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like Jon, I'm interested in hearing your specific complaints
>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>>> SWF. I suspect we all have quibbles or reservations about the
>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>> itself, but do you have any particulars concerning the finished
>>>>>>>> project which you feel need to be corrected?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the bye, ad hominems and personal insults like "mutt" and  
>>>>>>>> "big
>>>>>>>> ears" are looked askance at by the list administrator.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oll an gwelha,
>>>>>>>> ~~Owen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2008, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com> rug scrifa:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to and
>>>>>>>>> fro
>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in
>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>> than I
>>>>>>>>> would have preferred.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing  
>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> every discussion I could access on what was going on (in
>>>>>>>>> addition to
>>>>>>>>> actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as
>>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been  
>>>>>>>>> following a
>>>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government  
>>>>>>>>> money" -
>>>>>>>>> great for
>>>>>>>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so great
>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the
>>>>>>>>> money on
>>>>>>>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish speakers
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> homegrown
>>>>>>>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are  
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> too expert,
>>>>>>>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric  
>>>>>>>>> Brook
>>>>>>>>> is,
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know
>>>>>>>>> about La
>>>>>>>>> Ansari
>>>>>>>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and  
>>>>>>>>> Bert
>>>>>>>>> Biscoe lost
>>>>>>>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously
>>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>>> to come
>>>>>>>>> to any sort of understanding about the language.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be surprised if
>>>>>>>>> Big
>>>>>>>>> Ears
>>>>>>>>> Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> seen more
>>>>>>>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside
>>>>>>>>> privy.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not a
>>>>>>>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they were, as
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> uncle Tony
>>>>>>>>> the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity linguists
>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process  
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> led to the
>>>>>>>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public
>>>>>>>>> consultation
>>>>>>>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say
>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan  
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> going way
>>>>>>>>> over budget.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a
>>>>>>>>> knowledge of
>>>>>>>>> Brythonic
>>>>>>>>> languages would tear it apart.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>>>>>>>>> orthography to
>>>>>>>>> reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up  
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> divergent
>>>>>>>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most  
>>>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>>>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel. What mutt
>>>>>>>>> dreamt that
>>>>>>>>> one up?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect  
>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>>>>>>>>> pronunciation. Go
>>>>>>>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured through the  
>>>>>>>>> postings on
>>>>>>>>> this list -
>>>>>>>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish  
>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> Kernewek
>>>>>>>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans  
>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>>> reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and why  
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> differs from
>>>>>>>>> KK.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up
>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Penny
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> 07:37
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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