[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Fri Jul 11 18:08:02 IST 2008


You will find the errata at
http://www.evertype.com/gram/tn-errata.html

Nicholas

On 11 Jul 2008, at 13:59, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

> And what mistakes were those?  I didn't detect any.  Yes, Michael's
> typesetting and layout speaks very highly for itself, but content
> matters just as much, if not more.  Accept the praise, Nicholas.  Both
> Michael and your good self fully merit it. - and the same applies to
> Bewnans Ke, which is one of my most highly prized possessions.  Kesva
> productions cannot hold a candle to either of you.
>
> Craig
>
> nicholas williams wrote:
>> The credit for the appearance of Testament Noweth goes to Michael.
>> I am responsible only for the mistakes.
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>>
>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:27, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Unfortunately, Nicholas, I've seen it.  Just like their version of
>>> Bewnans Ke, it is the exact opposite of your Testament Noweth which
>>> merited the description that one commentator gave to it : "the most
>>> beautiful book ever written in Cornish".  I showed your TN to my
>>> all-too-frequent JW visitors (when will they accept that I will  
>>> never,
>>> ever, subscribe to any organised religion?), and they went into
>>> raptures
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> nicholas williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> He did not understand that KK was controversial.
>>>> Unlike Rowan Williams, he did not allow his words to be translated
>>>> into KK.
>>>> See the Kesva's Testament Nowydh (if you must—it is dreadful in  
>>>> every
>>>> possible way).
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas
>>>> -----------
>>>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:05, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On the downside, he also contributed to Ken George's dictionary  
>>>>> ("An
>>>>> Gerlyver Kres"): Page 2 - "The publication of this book has been
>>>>> supported by a donation from H.R.H. the Duke of Cornwall".
>>>>>
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> nicholas williams wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You know, Ken, that his great-great-grandfather Edward VII
>>>>>> subsidised
>>>>>> Dwelly's Gaelic dictionary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:42, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He turned up at the Dingwall Mod in 1991 and got up in the High
>>>>>>> Street here
>>>>>>> and gave a pretty good speech all in Gaelic.  So although I am  
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> royalist
>>>>>>> myself, full marks for 'going the extra mile', taking his Duke  
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Rothesay
>>>>>>> and Lord of the Isles titles seriously
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - an Ken ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
>>>>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>>>>> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
>>>>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>>>> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Harry Fraiser" <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, that does seem rather unfair. After all, he has insisted
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> Cornish be used on the Duchy of Cornwall website!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/10/08, nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And by me. I live in Ireland, not Cornwall, and living as  
>>>>>>>>> expat
>>>>>>>>> here I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> become quite a royalist. I have a high opinion of the Prince  
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Wales/
>>>>>>>>> Duke of Cornwall and
>>>>>>>>> find insults to the royal family deeply offensive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicholas Williams
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:16, Owen Cook wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Like Jon, I'm interested in hearing your specific complaints
>>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>>>>> SWF. I suspect we all have quibbles or reservations about the
>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>> itself, but do you have any particulars concerning the  
>>>>>>>>>> finished
>>>>>>>>>> project which you feel need to be corrected?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By the bye, ad hominems and personal insults like "mutt" and
>>>>>>>>>> "big
>>>>>>>>>> ears" are looked askance at by the list administrator.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oll an gwelha,
>>>>>>>>>> ~~Owen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2008, Penny Squire <pennysquire at ymail.com> rug  
>>>>>>>>>> scrifa:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I have been to  
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> fro
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so have been less in
>>>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>>>> than I
>>>>>>>>>>> would have preferred.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been ploughing
>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> every discussion I could access on what was going on (in
>>>>>>>>>>> addition to
>>>>>>>>>>> actually learning the language!) including Cornwall 24, as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may have been
>>>>>>>>>>> following a
>>>>>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>>>>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it means government
>>>>>>>>>>> money" -
>>>>>>>>>>> great for
>>>>>>>>>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall Council, not so  
>>>>>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual malice ("let's blow the
>>>>>>>>>>> money on
>>>>>>>>>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline Cornish  
>>>>>>>>>>> speakers
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> homegrown
>>>>>>>>>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably ones that are
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> too expert,
>>>>>>>>>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the language") - Eric
>>>>>>>>>>> Brook
>>>>>>>>>>> is,
>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who doesn't know
>>>>>>>>>>> about La
>>>>>>>>>>> Ansari
>>>>>>>>>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be on this list!) and
>>>>>>>>>>> Bert
>>>>>>>>>>> Biscoe lost
>>>>>>>>>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and has obviously
>>>>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>>>>> to come
>>>>>>>>>>> to any sort of understanding about the language.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I wouldn't be  
>>>>>>>>>>> surprised if
>>>>>>>>>>> Big
>>>>>>>>>>> Ears
>>>>>>>>>>> Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have read the so-called report the Commission produced and
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> seen more
>>>>>>>>>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in Granny's outside
>>>>>>>>>>> privy.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a
>>>>>>>>>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see that they  
>>>>>>>>>>> were, as
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> uncle Tony
>>>>>>>>>>> the builder would say, 'shitty workers'. It's a pity  
>>>>>>>>>>> linguists
>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in the process
>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> led to the
>>>>>>>>>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on government public
>>>>>>>>>>> consultation
>>>>>>>>>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public has its say
>>>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>>>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a hideous plan
>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the taxpayer a bomb to build
>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>> going way
>>>>>>>>>>> over budget.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist with a
>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of
>>>>>>>>>>> Brythonic
>>>>>>>>>>> languages would tear it apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying to design  an
>>>>>>>>>>> orthography to
>>>>>>>>>>> reflect how second language learners and speakers brought up
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> divergent
>>>>>>>>>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the single most
>>>>>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>>>>>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of Babel. What  
>>>>>>>>>>> mutt
>>>>>>>>>>> dreamt that
>>>>>>>>>>> one up?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to the effect
>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> pointless discussing orthography design before agreeing on
>>>>>>>>>>> pronunciation. Go
>>>>>>>>>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured through the
>>>>>>>>>>> postings on
>>>>>>>>>>> this list -
>>>>>>>>>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in capitals!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been learning Cornish
>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>> Kernewek
>>>>>>>>>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how close the Spellyans
>>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>>>>> reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if, where and why
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> differs from
>>>>>>>>>>> KK.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and will catch up
>>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Penny
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> 07:37
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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