[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

Mary Williams marywilliams230 at yahoo.co.uk
Fri Jul 11 23:47:44 IST 2008


I'm surprised you consider a passing Witness to be a suitable judge of
Bible translations. I fear he would have been reduced to judging the
book by its cover. The UCR Bible and Dr. Williams' Bywnans Ke seem both
to have been designed (and priced) for the collectors market. The Kesva
prefer to publish books that Cornish people can afford to buy and read.
I really do detect a whiff of smugness here. If you have the good of
the language at heart why don't you both make your excellent talents
available to all sides, rather than supporting a minority faction?



Mary (a bit puzzled)

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk> wrote:
From: Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Date: Friday, 11 July, 2008, 11:27 AM

Unfortunately, Nicholas, I've seen it.  Just like their version of 
Bewnans Ke, it is the exact opposite of your Testament Noweth which 
merited the description that one commentator gave to it : "the most 
beautiful book ever written in Cornish".  I showed your TN to my 
all-too-frequent JW visitors (when will they accept that I will never, 
ever, subscribe to any organised religion?), and they went into raptures 
about it.

Craig


nicholas williams wrote:
> He did not understand that KK was controversial.
> Unlike Rowan Williams, he did not allow his words to be translated  
> into KK.
> See the Kesva's Testament Nowydh (if you must—it is dreadful in
every  
> possible way).
>
> Nicholas
> -----------
> On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:05, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>
>   
>> On the downside, he also contributed to Ken George's dictionary
("An
>> Gerlyver Kres"): Page 2 - "The publication of this book has
been
>> supported by a donation from H.R.H. the Duke of Cornwall".
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> nicholas williams wrote:
>>     
>>> You know, Ken, that his great-great-grandfather Edward VII
subsidised
>>> Dwelly's Gaelic dictionary.
>>>
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:42, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> He turned up at the Dingwall Mod in 1991 and got up in the
High
>>>> Street here
>>>> and gave a pretty good speech all in Gaelic.  So although I am
no
>>>> royalist
>>>> myself, full marks for 'going the extra mile', taking
his Duke of
>>>> Rothesay
>>>> and Lord of the Isles titles seriously
>>>>
>>>> - an Ken ken
>>>>
>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Harry Fraiser"
<harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"
<spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Yes, that does seem rather unfair. After all, he has
insisted that
>>>>> Cornish be used on the Duchy of Cornwall website!
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/10/08, nicholas williams
<njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> And by me. I live in Ireland, not Cornwall, and living
as expat
>>>>>> here I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> become quite a royalist. I have a high opinion of the
Prince of
>>>>>> Wales/
>>>>>> Duke of Cornwall and
>>>>>> find insults to the royal family deeply offensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicholas Williams
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:16, Owen Cook wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Like Jon, I'm interested in hearing your
specific complaints
>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>> SWF. I suspect we all have quibbles or
reservations about the
>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>> itself, but do you have any particulars concerning
the finished
>>>>>>> project which you feel need to be corrected?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the bye, ad hominems and personal insults like
"mutt" and "big
>>>>>>> ears" are looked askance at by the list
administrator.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oll an gwelha,
>>>>>>> ~~Owen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/07/2008, Penny Squire
<pennysquire at ymail.com> rug scrifa:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I
have been to and  
>>>>>>>> fro
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so
have been less in  
>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>> than I
>>>>>>>> would have preferred.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been
ploughing through
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> every discussion I could access on what was
going on (in
>>>>>>>> addition to
>>>>>>>> actually learning the language!) including
Cornwall 24, as  
>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may
have been following a
>>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it
means government money" -
>>>>>>>> great for
>>>>>>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall
Council, not so great
>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual
malice ("let's blow the
>>>>>>>> money on
>>>>>>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline
Cornish speakers  
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> homegrown
>>>>>>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably
ones that are not
>>>>>>>> too expert,
>>>>>>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the
language") - Eric Brook
>>>>>>>> is,
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who
doesn't know  
>>>>>>>> about La
>>>>>>>> Ansari
>>>>>>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be
on this list!) and Bert
>>>>>>>> Biscoe lost
>>>>>>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and
has obviously
>>>>>>>> failed
>>>>>>>> to come
>>>>>>>> to any sort of understanding about the
language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I
wouldn't be surprised if  
>>>>>>>> Big
>>>>>>>> Ears
>>>>>>>> Windsor had a hand in it, either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have read the so-called report the
Commission produced and  
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> seen more
>>>>>>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in
Granny's outside  
>>>>>>>> privy.
>>>>>>>> I'm not a
>>>>>>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see
that they were, as  
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> uncle Tony
>>>>>>>> the builder would say, 'shitty
workers'. It's a pity linguists
>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in
the process which
>>>>>>>> led to the
>>>>>>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on
government public
>>>>>>>> consultation
>>>>>>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public
has its say  
>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a
hideous plan which
>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the
taxpayer a bomb to build  
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> going way
>>>>>>>> over budget.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist
with a  
>>>>>>>> knowledge of
>>>>>>>> Brythonic
>>>>>>>> languages would tear it apart.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying
to design  an
>>>>>>>> orthography to
>>>>>>>> reflect how second language learners and
speakers brought up on
>>>>>>>> divergent
>>>>>>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the
single most crazy
>>>>>>>> linguistic
>>>>>>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of
Babel. What mutt
>>>>>>>> dreamt that
>>>>>>>> one up?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to
the effect that it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> pointless discussing orthography design before
agreeing on
>>>>>>>> pronunciation. Go
>>>>>>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured
through the postings on
>>>>>>>> this list -
>>>>>>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in
capitals!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been
learning Cornish using
>>>>>>>> Kernewek
>>>>>>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how
close the Spellyans group
>>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>> reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if,
where and why it
>>>>>>>> differs from
>>>>>>>> KK.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and
will catch up  
>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Penny
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>>>
http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>           
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