[Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Sat Jul 12 12:21:08 IST 2008


The title of our edition of the play is BEWNANS KE. We spelt it thus  
because the word bewnans 'life' is so spelt in the text itself four  
times, and the lenited variant vewnans occurs twice.
The form *bywnans is unattested anywhere in the corpus of traditional  
Cornish being an invention of Dr Ken George.
Might I ask you, Mary, not to refer to our edition with a title that  
is 1. not its title; 2. not traditional Cornish?
Gromercy dhywgh a hedna.

Nicholas Williams

On 11 Jul 2008, at 23:47, Mary Williams wrote:

> I'm surprised you consider a passing Witness to be a suitable judge  
> of Bible translations. I fear he would have been reduced to judging  
> the book by its cover. The UCR Bible and Dr. Williams' Bywnans Ke  
> seem both to have been designed (and priced) for the collectors  
> market. The Kesva prefer to publish books that Cornish people can  
> afford to buy and read. I really do detect a whiff of smugness here.  
> If you have the good of the language at heart why don't you both  
> make your excellent talents available to all sides, rather than  
> supporting a minority faction?
>
> Mary (a bit puzzled)
>
> --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>  
> wrote:
> From: Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Date: Friday, 11 July, 2008, 11:27 AM
>
> Unfortunately, Nicholas, I've seen it.  Just like their version of
> Bewnans Ke, it is the exact opposite of your Testament Noweth which
> merited the description that one commentator gave to it : "the most
> beautiful book ever written in Cornish".  I showed your TN to my
> all-too-frequent JW visitors (when will they accept that I will never,
> ever, subscribe to any organised religion?), and they went into  
> raptures
> about it.
>
> Craig
>
>
> nicholas williams wrote:
> > He
>  did not understand that KK was controversial.
> > Unlike Rowan Williams, he did not allow his words to be translated
> > into KK.
> > See the Kesva's Testament Nowydh (if you must—it is dreadful in
> every
> > possible way).
> >
> > Nicholas
> > -----------
> > On 11 Jul 2008, at 12:05, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On the downside, he also contributed to Ken George's dictionary
> ("An
> >> Gerlyver Kres"): Page 2 - "The publication of this book has
> been
> >> supported by a donation from H.R.H. the Duke of Cornwall".
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >>
> >> nicholas williams wrote:
> >>
> >>> You know, Ken, that his great-great-grandfather Edward VII
> subsidised
> >>> Dwelly's Gaelic dictionary.
> >>>
> >>> Nicholas
> >>>
> >>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:42, Ken MacKinnon
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> He turned up at the Dingwall Mod in 1991 and got up in the
> High
> >>>> Street here
> >>>> and gave a pretty good speech all in Gaelic.  So although I am
> no
> >>>> royalist
> >>>> myself, full marks for 'going the extra mile', taking
> his Duke of
> >>>> Rothesay
> >>>> and Lord of the Isles titles seriously
> >>>>
> >>>> - an Ken ken
> >>>>
> >>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
> >>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> >>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> >>>> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
> >>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
> >>>> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Harry
>  Fraiser"
> <harryfraiser at googlemail.com>
> >>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"
> <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:36 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing Penny Squire
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes, that does seem rather unfair. After all, he has
> insisted that
> >>>>> Cornish be used on the Duchy of Cornwall website!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Harry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 7/10/08, nicholas williams
> <njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> And by me. I live in Ireland, not Cornwall, and living
> as expat
> >>>>>> here I
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> become quite a
>  royalist. I have a high opinion of the
> Prince of
> >>>>>> Wales/
> >>>>>> Duke of Cornwall and
> >>>>>> find insults to the royal family deeply offensive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nicholas Williams
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10 Jul 2008, at 17:16, Owen Cook wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Like Jon, I'm interested in hearing your
> specific complaints
> >>>>>>> about the
> >>>>>>> SWF. I suspect we all have quibbles or
> reservations about the
> >>>>>>> process
> >>>>>>> itself, but do you have any particulars concerning
> the finished
> >>>>>>> project which you feel need to be
>  corrected?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> By the bye, ad hominems and personal insults like
> "mutt" and "big
> >>>>>>> ears" are looked askance at by the list
> administrator.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Oll an gwelha,
> >>>>>>> ~~Owen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 10/07/2008, Penny Squire
> <pennysquire at ymail.com> rug scrifa:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Please bear in mind that for several years I
> have been to and
> >>>>>>>> fro
> >>>>>>>> between
> >>>>>>>> Cornwall and other places rather a lot, so
> have been less in
> >>>>>>>> touch
> >>>>>>>> than
>  I
> >>>>>>>> would have preferred.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Having said that, I have, when possible, been
> ploughing through
> >>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> every discussion I could access on what was
> going on (in
> >>>>>>>> addition to
> >>>>>>>> actually learning the language!) including
> Cornwall 24, as
> >>>>>>>> well as
> >>>>>>>> looking
> >>>>>>>> at George, Gendall, Williams and Chaudhri.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From what I can gather the Partnership may
> have been following a
> >>>>>>>> political
> >>>>>>>> agenda of " let's fudge something, it
> means
>  government money" -
> >>>>>>>> great for
> >>>>>>>> the boys and girls employed by Cornwall
> Council, not so great
> >>>>>>>> for the
> >>>>>>>> language.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm not, however, discounting actual
> malice ("let's blow the
> >>>>>>>> money on
> >>>>>>>> conferences, pander to non-speakers, sideline
> Cornish speakers
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> homegrown
> >>>>>>>> experts and fly in outside experts, preferably
> ones that are not
> >>>>>>>> too expert,
> >>>>>>>> produce a shambles and really stuff the
> language") - Eric Brook
> >>>>>>>> is,
> >>>>>>>>
>  after
> >>>>>>>> all, a colleague of Doris Ansari (anyone who
> doesn't know
> >>>>>>>> about La
> >>>>>>>> Ansari
> >>>>>>>> and her anti-Cornish agenda shouldn't be
> on this list!) and Bert
> >>>>>>>> Biscoe lost
> >>>>>>>> the plot on the Assembly campaign long ago and
> has obviously
> >>>>>>>> failed
> >>>>>>>> to come
> >>>>>>>> to any sort of understanding about the
> language.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Having read John Angarrack's latest I
> wouldn't be surprised if
> >>>>>>>> Big
> >>>>>>>> Ears
> >>>>>>>> Windsor had a hand in it,
>  either.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have read the so-called report the
> Commission produced and
> >>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> seen more
> >>>>>>>> valuable documents hanging on the nail in
> Granny's outside
> >>>>>>>> privy..
> >>>>>>>> I'm not a
> >>>>>>>> linguist, but one hardly needs to be to see
> that they were, as
> >>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>> uncle Tony
> >>>>>>>> the builder would say, 'shitty
> workers'. It's a pity linguists
> >>>>>>>> aren't
> >>>>>>>> covered by the Trade Descriptions Act.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Essentially I have no confidence whatsoever in
> the process
>  which
> >>>>>>>> led to the
> >>>>>>>> SWF. It looks as if it were modelled on
> government public
> >>>>>>>> consultation
> >>>>>>>> exercises which are a total sham - the public
> has its say
> >>>>>>>> which is
> >>>>>>>> totally
> >>>>>>>> ignored and some back office hack produces a
> hideous plan which
> >>>>>>>> please
> >>>>>>>> nobody, doesn't work and costs the
> taxpayer a bomb to build
> >>>>>>>> after
> >>>>>>>> going way
> >>>>>>>> over budget.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for the SWF itself - I imaging any linguist
> with a
> >>>>>>>> knowledge
>  of
> >>>>>>>> Brythonic
> >>>>>>>> languages would tear it apart.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am not an expert on linguistics - but trying
> to design  an
> >>>>>>>> orthography to
> >>>>>>>> reflect how second language learners and
> speakers brought up on
> >>>>>>>> divergent
> >>>>>>>> phonologies mispronounce Cornish has to be the
> single most crazy
> >>>>>>>> linguistic
> >>>>>>>> idea since whoever it was built the tower of
> Babel. What mutt
> >>>>>>>> dreamt that
> >>>>>>>> one up?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jon, in a previous post you said something to
> the effect that
>  it
> >>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>> pointless discussing orthography design before
> agreeing on
> >>>>>>>> pronunciation. Go
> >>>>>>>> to the top of the class! I have laboured
> through the postings on
> >>>>>>>> this list -
> >>>>>>>> I think you need to reiterate it - in
> capitals!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As I said in my introduction, I have been
> learning Cornish using
> >>>>>>>> Kernewek
> >>>>>>>> Kemmyn. I'd be interested to know how
> close the Spellyans group
> >>>>>>>> is to
> >>>>>>>> reaching conclusions on pronunciation, and if,
> where and why it
> >>>>>>>> differs from
> >>>>>>>>
>  KK.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I shall be away for ten days or thereabout and
> will catch up
> >>>>>>>> on my
> >>>>>>>> return.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Penny
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
> >>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> >>>>>>>
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>> Version: 8.0.136 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1544 - Release
> Date:
> >>>>> 10/07/2008
> >>>>> 07:37
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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