[Spellyans] More on bys/bes words and diacritical marks

Pat patmiller4 at btinternet.com
Sun Jul 20 10:16:56 IST 2008


Ogh Soweth!  I think I think I probably did that translation Nicholas. 
I use Nance with cross refererence to your own dictionary.
Pat 


----- Original Message ----
From: nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 10:01:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] More on bys/bes words and diacritical marks

The language of Gorseth Kernow is Unified Cornish — though it is not always very good Cornish.

The title of one of the lists is as follows:
Hynwyn Tylu pup Barth oll yn aray abecedary 

Since each bard has one surname it would have been better to write
Hanow Tylu pup Barth…
Moreover the word aray means 'appearance, display' in traditional Cornish. 'Order' in
is ordyr, order.

Abecedary is not attested, having been borrowed from Middle English.
The Weslh word is egwyddor < Latin abecedarium. I don't understand why
Nance didn't Cornicise that as *egwedher or similar, or just borrow the English
word as *alfabet. I suppose he just wanted to be quaint, as so often.
Apart from Lhuyd the only reference to letters of the alphabet in the texts
is: 
Du gveras a b c
an pen can henna yv d BM 99-100.

Had I been asked to translate 'The surname of each bard in alphabetical order' I should have written:

Hanow teylu pub bardh in ordyr an ABC (KS)
Hanow tylu pup barth yn ordyr an ABC (UC).


Nicholas


On 20 Jul 2008, at 08:58, Harry Fraiser wrote:

How are these Bardic titles determined? Do their spellings undergo
variation pari passu with orthographical reform?

Harry

On 7/20/08, Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk> wrote:

Oh, now this IS interesting, Pat.  Neither Nicholas nor I appear in the

Bardic roll.  Yes, we both resigned our bardship, and the list could say

so.  However, what the Gorsedd appears to be doing is to write our

bardship out of history.  The facts remain that I was installed as a

Bard in 1981 for services to archaeology, and Nicholas rather earlier

than that for services to the language.  Those facts cannot be discarded

simply by omission.


However, if you then look at the list of Bardic Names, Delynyer

Hendhyscans is there, followed by the words "resigned" and Weatherhill.


Someone at the Gorsedd is being disingenuous, I feel.


Craig


Golvan, too is there, correctly identified (by surname only) as Williams

- but no mention of resignation.




Pat wrote:



http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_roll.pdf


http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_names.pdf


This is the link to this years which were announced last week.

http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bard2008.htm


My apologies for going off topic Michael, but we have recently put 2

new lists of Bards on the Gorseth website which can be searched by

surname or Bardic names.


Give the URLs?

--

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com <http://www.evertype.com/>


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