[Spellyans] More on bys/bes words and diacritical marks

nicholas williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Sun Jul 20 10:23:25 IST 2008


Gaf dhym!

Nicholas

On 20 Jul 2008, at 10:16, Pat wrote:

> Ogh Soweth!  I think I think I probably did that translation Nicholas.
> I use Nance with cross refererence to your own dictionary.
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 10:01:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] More on bys/bes words and diacritical marks
>
> The language of Gorseth Kernow is Unified Cornish — though it is not  
> always very good Cornish.
>
> The title of one of the lists is as follows:
> Hynwyn Tylu pup Barth oll yn aray abecedary
>
> Since each bard has one surname it would have been better to write
> Hanow Tylu pup Barth…
> Moreover the word aray means 'appearance, display' in traditional  
> Cornish. 'Order' in
> is ordyr, order.
>
> Abecedary is not attested, having been borrowed from Middle English.
> The Weslh word is egwyddor < Latin abecedarium. I don't understand why
> Nance didn't Cornicise that as *egwedher or similar, or just borrow  
> the English
> word as *alfabet. I suppose he just wanted to be quaint, as so often.
> Apart from Lhuyd the only reference to letters of the alphabet in  
> the texts
> is:
> Du gveras a b c
> an pen can henna yv d BM 99-100.
>
> Had I been asked to translate 'The surname of each bard in  
> alphabetical order' I should have written:
>
> Hanow teylu pub bardh in ordyr an ABC (KS)
> Hanow tylu pup barth yn ordyr an ABC (UC).
>
>
> Nicholas
>
>
> On 20 Jul 2008, at 08:58, Harry Fraiser wrote:
>
>> How are these Bardic titles determined? Do their spellings undergo
>> variation pari passu with orthographical reform?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On 7/20/08, Craig Weatherhill <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Oh, now this IS interesting, Pat.  Neither Nicholas nor I appear  
>>> in the
>>> Bardic roll.  Yes, we both resigned our bardship, and the list  
>>> could say
>>> so.  However, what the Gorsedd appears to be doing is to write our
>>> bardship out of history.  The facts remain that I was installed as a
>>> Bard in 1981 for services to archaeology, and Nicholas rather  
>>> earlier
>>> than that for services to the language.  Those facts cannot be  
>>> discarded
>>> simply by omission.
>>>
>>> However, if you then look at the list of Bardic Names, Delynyer
>>> Hendhyscans is there, followed by the words "resigned" and  
>>> Weatherhill.
>>>
>>> Someone at the Gorsedd is being disingenuous, I feel.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>> Golvan, too is there, correctly identified (by surname only) as  
>>> Williams
>>> - but no mention of resignation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pat wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_roll.pdf
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_names.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This is the link to this years which were announced last week.
>>>> http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bard2008.htm
>>>>
>>>>> My apologies for going off topic Michael, but we have recently  
>>>>> put 2
>>>>> new lists of Bards on the Gorseth website which can be searched by
>>>>> surname or Bardic names.
>>>>
>>>> Give the URLs?
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com <http:// 
>>>> www.evertype.com/>
>>>>
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>>
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