[Spellyans] mes, res, bys, bys/bes

Craig Weatherhill weatherhill at freenet.co.uk
Thu Jul 24 14:19:09 IST 2008


Might <miys> be a possibility (not that I particularly want to go too 
far down this road).

Craig



nicholas williams wrote:
> <ij> is quite common in the texts but I can find no example of its use
> in a stressed monosyllable. If the AHG wouldn't accept <beis> I think
> the chances of their accepting <mijs> would be very slight.
>
> Nicholas
> -----------
>
> On 24 Jul 2008, at 01:50, A. J. Trim wrote:
>
>> Michael Everson quoted and wrote:
>>
>> “At 09:40 +0200 2008-07-23, Daniel Prohaska wrote:
>> >I would like to hear everyone's opinions on the
>> >following idea for redistributing <y> and <i> in
>> >the SWF. I would write <i> where bother Late and
>> >Middle Cornish have /i/ and /i:/, and write <y>
>> >~ <e> (in dictionaries <ÿ> ~ <ë>) where Middle
>> >Cornish has /I/ and /I:/, but Late Cornish has
>> >/e/ and /e:/.
>>
>> I can't see how this would work. In the first
>> place, in stressed syllables, we have [i:] words
>> (like <mis> and we have [e:] words (like <res>
>> and we have [I] words like <bys>. No problem
>> here: we write <i> and <e> and <y> for these. We
>> also have in stressed syllables words [i:] and
>> [e:] alternate; no problem here: we write <ÿ> and
>> <ë> regularly.
>>
>>>>
>> So Michael would write:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *bys*, *bÿs*/*bës*.
>>
>> The vowels are all differentiated but we need to use a diacritic that 
>> SWF folks apparently won’t accept.
>>
>> We need to ask them again, as we have identified this to be the best 
>> way to go.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Whereas the current SWF writes:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *bys*, *bys*/*bes*.
>>
>> Here there are no diacritics. However, <*y*> is short in *bys* whilst 
>> the <*y*> in *bys*/*bes* is long.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Whereas the SWF should logically write:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *bys*, *bis*/*bes*.
>>
>> This is because the <*i*> in *bis* is long and the rule is that <*i*> 
>> is regularly long. However, this was dismissed earlier on this forum 
>> as “too great a change” to the SWF, and you cannot then distinguish 
>> *mis* type words from *bis*/*bes* type words.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Whereas Dan would write:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *bis*, *bys*/*bes*.
>>
>> Here there are no diacritics (except in dictionaries). It would be 
>> easy to change all <*y*> to <*e*> if desired (but not visa versa). 
>> However the <*i*> in *mis* is long whilst the <*i*> in *bis* is 
>> short. We would therefore need to distinguish these in some other way.
>>
>> We could, of course, mark the long vowel with a diacritical mark, 
>> e.g. *mís* & *bis*.
>>
>> However, if <*i*> is to be regularly long before <*s*> then a second 
>> option would be better, i.e. *mis* & *bìs*. This gives my suggestion:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *bìs*, *bys*/*bes*
>>
>>  
>>
>> Would the SWF folks accept <*ì*> or would this be seen as just the 
>> same thing as using <*ÿ*>/<*ë*> in the other type of words?
>>
>> _If no diacritics at all are allowed_, we need to respell the short 
>> vowel or respell the following consonant. I cannot think of a 
>> suitable respelling for short <*i*> (other than <*y*>) so we need to 
>> respell the following consonant. We could write *mis* & *biz*, with 
>> the rule that <*i*> is short before <*z*>. This gives my second 
>> suggestion:
>>
>> *mis*, *res*, *biz*, *bys*/*bes*.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Unfortunately, there would be rather a lot of short <*i*> to take 
>> care of in these sorts of ways. We might therefore be better off 
>> respelling the *mis* type words instead. Long <*i*> could be re-spelt 
>> <*ij*> for example, with the rule that <*i*> is short and <*ij*> is 
>> long. This gives my third suggestion:
>>
>> *mijs*, *res*, *bis*, *bys*/*bes*.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andrew J. Trim
>>
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