[Spellyans] au

Craig Weatherhill weatherhill at freenet.co.uk
Thu Jul 24 23:17:35 IST 2008


My typos are getting worse.  I meant to say "a lost site in Newlyn East 
parish".  Apologies!

Craig



Ken MacKinnon wrote:
> Chons da ha sowena,  Craig - Ken
>
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Craig Weatherhill" <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] au
>
>
>   
>> Then I should be thankful for small mercies, Ken!  I must admit that I
>> did want the name Menhyr (and have published under such a pseudonym)
>> because it represented an archaeological monument - and I was (and still
>> am) heavily involved in archaeology - Craig "rock" was close enough to
>> Men "stone" and, as for the Hyr part, well, I am 6' 3" tall.
>>
>> Oliver has been at considerable pains to point out that Gover is replete
>> with error and, apparently, he is currently checking evcery single
>> source cited by Gover in order to sort it all out.  A mammoth task that
>> I would not even contemplate tackling - not if I want to go on earning
>> my meagre living.  He is uniquely placed to take this on.
>>
>> For example, Pensivillowe, cited by Gover, might well look like an early
>> form of Pensilva (which is a name of relatively modern coinage) when, in
>> fact, it refers to amlst site in Newlyn East parish.  Oliver brought me
>> up short for my citing forms such as Brevannek for St Agnes when it
>> seems that all the similar forms actually refer to a site in St Hilary.
>> Hence my reversion to the Bryanek forms for St Agnes.
>>
>> I will have to place a cautionary note about reliance upon Gover in my
>> place-name document, which has to be complete by the end of July.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>     
>>> Most interested in your revison of place-names list, Craig.   I would be
>>> very keen to receive this when it is ready.
>>>
>>> I was presented with a full set of the Kesva placenames booklets when I
>>> did
>>> my 2000 study.   I could immediately see that many of them were
>>> unsatisfactory on all sorts of grounds - and that this represented
>>> essentially an amateur approach.   I have always felt that the failure to
>>> publish Gover's placenames book was a considerable failing on the part of
>>> the EPNS.  When Oliver retired I said I hoped he would get this published
>>> as
>>> priority.  He siad he wanted to revise it as further scholarship had
>>> overtaken some of Gover's work.  However we still await this opus.  I can
>>> imagine that Oliver is beavering away - but you can beaver away for ever
>>> on
>>> that sort of thing and submerge without trace beneath the detail,   never
>>> to
>>> emerge with the finished product.  I very much hope that your revised
>>> list
>>> will see early publication.  Otherwise it's Gresham's Law: bad money
>>> drives
>>> out good.
>>>
>>> I would hope very much as a priority that a commission for Cornish
>>> placenames might be constituted as an ealy priority of developments now
>>> the
>>> SWF has been announced.    If it is, I very much trust that it will
>>> comprise
>>> actual professional experts and persons with actual track record in the
>>> field.
>>>
>>> I feel that your application for Menhyr as a bardic name was rightly
>>> turned
>>> down - but for the wrong reason.   A menhyr is an artefact.   Craig
>>> refers
>>> to a natural and conspicuous stone feature.   It is Creag in Gaelic and
>>> is
>>> feminine in gender - and so is its derivation carraig.   As is also its
>>> Cornish cognate carrek.  There is of course clegar - which Nicholas gives
>>> as
>>> feminine but Nance as masculine.   You may have had a lucky escape.
>>>
>>> gorhemmynadow - Ken
>>>
>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon,
>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>> Ross-shire  IV7 8HX
>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>> E-mail: kenmackinnon at enterprise.net
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Craig Weatherhill" <weatherhill at freenet.co.uk>
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] au
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> In their booklet on place-name recommendations, the Kesva tended to
>>>> replace <au> with <ow>, so we had "Mownan", "Mowgan", "Lanvowsedh" for
>>>> what was traditionally Maunan, Maugan and Lanvausa (St Mawes).  Then
>>>> they went and replaced <ew> with <ow> in the name Trenewan which,
>>>> historically, has been Trenewien 1207; Trenywyan 1310; Trenywyen 1422;
>>>> Trenewyen 1424; Trenewen c. 1523 (presumably tre + personal name).  One
>>>> wonders why they did not recommend Trenywyen in accordance with their
>>>> own system, and which would have found an historical match from 1422.
>>>>
>>>> The SWF system would now have <o> for KK <ow>, so we would be looking at
>>>> Monan, Mogan and Lanvosa/Lanvosedh (admittedly, for Mawgan-in-Meneage,
>>>> we do have the spelling Pluvogan), which is why I advocate the
>>>> restoration of <au>, and am doing so in my place-name recommendation
>>>> document.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of which, do those to whom I sent the provisional list of 3,400
>>>> toponyms, have any comments?  If so, could I have them ASAP, if not
>>>> sooner?  Grassa dhewgh.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Everson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> At 07:45 +0100 2008-07-24, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Maybe because Austria is an anglicisation of Oesterreich from
>>>>>> Germnan Ost, ostern.  = east
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> The English translation is "Eastric" or possibly "Eastreach". :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
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>>     
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