[Spellyans] Front unrounded vowels, was: The quantity system

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Tue Jun 24 14:03:10 BST 2008

If [I:] is just "aspirational", then we don't need to accommodate it.

If the vowel is [i:], we could write bis, didh, pris.

If some people legitimately want to say [e:] instead, they could write bes, 
dedh, pres.

I could live with beis, deidh, preis as a compromise.

However, umbrella graph solutions such as this make learning to spell more 
We don't want to allow alternative spellings else we won't have a single 
written form.
As the aim is for a single form rather than for an easy form, I recommend 

The Late Cornish chei, kei, crei could be written chy, ky, cry.
Final <y> could be an umbrella graph for the <-i> & <-ei> of the current 
SWF, and the result looks more authentically based on Tudor spelling.


Andrew J. Trim

From: "Owen Cook" <owen.e.cook at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:48 PM
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Front unrounded vowels, was: The quantity system

> 2008/6/24 nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>:
>> The next question is whether to accommodate three long hight front vowel 
>> i:
>> I: and e: as is the case at present in
>> the SWF specification. The SWF allows bI:z for 'world', for example, 
>> which
>> nobody actually says.
>> This matter involves the distribution of <i> and <y> (both for long and
>> short vowels) and will need a lot of attention.
>> Nicholas.
> It does need a lot of attention. I suspect this will be the main topic
> of contention in our coming discussions.
> The variable (I:) was, if nothing else, a useful fiction at an earlier
> stage of KS, when we wrote <ei> to indicate alternations between /i:/
> and /e:/ in words like 'deidh' and 'preis'. This compromise was
> abandoned in the SWF, however, which allows users to choose between
> 'dydh' or 'dedh', 'prys' or 'pres'.
> So now there is a problem in the SWF for Middle Cornish, where <y>
> normally indicates the short vowel /I/, but, because of the rejection
> of <ei>, is also pressed into service for the long vowel in 'dydh' and
> 'prys' (which is theoretically /I:/ for Kemmyn users, and in practice
> /i:/ for revived Middle Cornish users generally).
> The latest incarnation of KS uses <ÿ> to indicate this long y,
> alternating with /e:/. Again (I:) here appears as a distinct variable.
> But there's something really incoherent about requiring the special
> character <ë> in 'dedh' and 'pres', as the latest version of KS does.
> Either we should allow alternation, by which <ÿ> and <e> can coexist
> (and remember, here we need the accent on <ÿ> to show length) ... or
> else we should use an umbrella graph to cover both alternants, for
> example <ei> or <ë>. If <ë> were used as an umbrella graph by
> everybody, well and good. But I fail to see any point in having <ë>
> alternate with <ÿ>.
> My own opinion is that for a SINGLE written form, umbrella graphs
> should be preferred to alternation wherever practical. In that sense,
> (I:) has its uses and could still be accommodated. I argued for <ei>
> last summer, and my feelings have not changed. True, <ei> has been
> shanghaied into use for the diphthong in 'kei', 'chei', 'crei', but
> this is found in a different environment (open syllables only) and we
> shall no doubt have reason to discuss whether it is necessary or
> useful for such words in the first place.
> ~~Owen
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