[Spellyans] Introducing myself and 'historical standard Cornish' HSC

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Sun Nov 23 11:27:49 GMT 2008


Please tell me you're joking, Ray?  Who on earth has gone and replaced  
a schwa with a long vowel?  Was it one of the much self-proclaimed  
"fluent/effective speakers"?  I shall refrain from making the obvious  
punning comment.

I think I might dispute that Lhuyd's <hu> = the awful <hw>, on the  
grounds that he was attempting to represent the phonetics of Cornish  
speech rather than the orthography.  Native writers contemporary with  
Lhuyd invariably used <wh>.  However, <wh> is also part of the SWF  
and, therefore, Nicholas's point remains undamaged.

Craig


On 23 Du 2008, at 09:23, Ray Chubb wrote:

> Fair enough, but when I talk about 'historical standard Cornish' I  
> am talking about Cornish that derived from the Glasney College  
> scribal tradition.  I don't include Lhuyd, Rowe and Boson in this.   
> Within this tradition 'skant' for example only appears to occur once  
> while 'scant' appears on three occasions.  I really do think we need  
> to distinguish between rare examples and the most common examples.   
> The principle that was the basis of Unified Cornish.  This is  
> especially important if, like me, you want your Cornish to have a  
> Cornish appearance.  Guess I should start writing 'onyn' now not  
> 'onen' :-)
>
> By the way I heard a pronunciation of 'onan' yesterday which  
> confirmed my worst fears.  Speakers with a Cornish accent are  
> pronouncing 'onan' with a long 'a'.
>
> Thanks to Michael for providing the information that enabled me to  
> do the counts.
>
>
> On 22 Du 2008, at 20:33, nicholas williams wrote:
>
>> If one accepts the principle of tota Cornicitas, most of the  
>> spellings in the SWF (without authentic graphs) are supported by  
>> the texts. Look at the following unfinished analysis:
>>
>> Yn termyn eus passyes yth esa trigys yn Synt Leven den ha benyn yn  
>> tyller kriys Chi an Hordh.
>> Han hwel a godhas skant; hag yn-medh an den dhe’n wreg,
>> “My a vynn mos dhe hwilas hwel dhe wul, ha hwi a yll dendil agas  
>> bewnans omma."
>> Kummyas teg ev a gemereas ha pell dhe’n est ev a dravalyas,
>> ha wor’tiwedh ev a wrug dos dhe ji tiek ha a wrug hwilas ena hwel  
>> dhe wul.
>>
>> yn termyn JKeigwin; In termyn passyes TH 49a
>> yth esa ow meynya TH 40at
>> a vo trigys PC 122
>> Bannath Synt Cler ha Synt Ya BK 2897-98
>> may teffa pub den ha benyn TH 22a
>> kriez Stynnorian WGwavas; an Levar kreiyz Liber Landavensis Lhuyd
>> an chi a thu TH 33
>> kemer dys pen horth BM 3395; Hor, †hordh AB: 3c
>> an huêl bîan hanter-gureyzma Lhuyd
>> try kodhaz padzhar legriaz Lhuyd
>> skant ny welaf vn banna CW 1461
>> yn meth crist pan dra PA 46b; Amedh Dzhûan Lhuyd
>> Then tyller PA 33a; dhon tavaz rê hîr Lhuyd; then
>> naye y honyn, y wreg TH 7
>> my a vyn mos OM 823; mar mynnyth PA 16d
>> ha ’ryg huillaz Lhuyd
>> Rag oun hui dho Kodha Lhuyd; wy a yll gull da PA 37d
>> rag dendel dyso kefyans BM 3076
>> agas bannethow OM 464; agys bewnans TH 28a
>> kumyas pesa BM 2778; mar pethama kibmiez NBoson
>> ha teg the sight y lagasow TH 3a
>> ev a brefyas lowre gow theis CW 818; an arghans a gemeras PA 103b
>> ny strechyaff pell PA 158c
>> E steran en Est Rowe.
>>
>> I dislike the SWF (without authentic graphs) but at least it is not  
>> Kernowek Kemmyn with all
>> its mistaken underlying phonology.
>>
>> In the SWF the most inauthentic spellings are items like vynn and  
>> kummyas with geminate consonant.
>> In SWF traditional we can substitute vydn and cubmyas, which are  
>> attested.
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Nov 2008, at 19:48, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>
>>> his is something that I have a passion about and for this reason I  
>>> will not be using the Standard Form on a personal level.
>>
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>
> Ray Chubb
>
> Portreth
> Kernow
>
>
>
>
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--
Craig Weatherhill





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