[Spellyans] Introducing myself and 'historical standardCornish' HSC
ajtrim at msn.com
ajtrim at msn.com
Sun Nov 23 12:36:07 GMT 2008
The official form of the SWF uses <hw> for traditional <wh>. Although you
can use <wh> in the SWF, the form that we shall see on public notices &
documents and in education will be <hw>. The same will go for the other
traditional graphs. In practice, the SWF will be publically visible mainly
without traditional graphs. So, although Nicholas's point was a good one,
Ray's concern is unlikely to have been removed.
Andrew J. Trim
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:27 AM
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Introducing myself and 'historical standardCornish'
> Please tell me you're joking, Ray? Who on earth has gone and replaced a
> schwa with a long vowel? Was it one of the much self-proclaimed
> "fluent/effective speakers"? I shall refrain from making the obvious
> punning comment.
> I think I might dispute that Lhuyd's <hu> = the awful <hw>, on the
> grounds that he was attempting to represent the phonetics of Cornish
> speech rather than the orthography. Native writers contemporary with
> Lhuyd invariably used <wh>. However, <wh> is also part of the SWF and,
> therefore, Nicholas's point remains undamaged.
> On 23 Du 2008, at 09:23, Ray Chubb wrote:
>> Fair enough, but when I talk about 'historical standard Cornish' I am
>> talking about Cornish that derived from the Glasney College scribal
>> tradition. I don't include Lhuyd, Rowe and Boson in this. Within this
>> tradition 'skant' for example only appears to occur once while 'scant'
>> appears on three occasions. I really do think we need to distinguish
>> between rare examples and the most common examples. The principle that
>> was the basis of Unified Cornish. This is especially important if, like
>> me, you want your Cornish to have a Cornish appearance. Guess I should
>> start writing 'onyn' now not 'onen' :-)
>> By the way I heard a pronunciation of 'onan' yesterday which confirmed
>> my worst fears. Speakers with a Cornish accent are pronouncing 'onan'
>> with a long 'a'.
>> Thanks to Michael for providing the information that enabled me to do
>> the counts.
>> On 22 Du 2008, at 20:33, nicholas williams wrote:
>>> If one accepts the principle of tota Cornicitas, most of the spellings
>>> in the SWF (without authentic graphs) are supported by the texts. Look
>>> at the following unfinished analysis:
>>> Yn termyn eus passyes yth esa trigys yn Synt Leven den ha benyn yn
>>> tyller kriys Chi an Hordh.
>>> Han hwel a godhas skant; hag yn-medh an den dhe’n wreg,
>>> “My a vynn mos dhe hwilas hwel dhe wul, ha hwi a yll dendil agas
>>> bewnans omma."
>>> Kummyas teg ev a gemereas ha pell dhe’n est ev a dravalyas,
>>> ha wor’tiwedh ev a wrug dos dhe ji tiek ha a wrug hwilas ena hwel dhe
>>> yn termyn JKeigwin; In termyn passyes TH 49a
>>> yth esa ow meynya TH 40at
>>> a vo trigys PC 122
>>> Bannath Synt Cler ha Synt Ya BK 2897-98
>>> may teffa pub den ha benyn TH 22a
>>> kriez Stynnorian WGwavas; an Levar kreiyz Liber Landavensis Lhuyd
>>> an chi a thu TH 33
>>> kemer dys pen horth BM 3395; Hor, †hordh AB: 3c
>>> an huêl bîan hanter-gureyzma Lhuyd
>>> try kodhaz padzhar legriaz Lhuyd
>>> skant ny welaf vn banna CW 1461
>>> yn meth crist pan dra PA 46b; Amedh Dzhûan Lhuyd
>>> Then tyller PA 33a; dhon tavaz rê hîr Lhuyd; then
>>> naye y honyn, y wreg TH 7
>>> my a vyn mos OM 823; mar mynnyth PA 16d
>>> ha ’ryg huillaz Lhuyd
>>> Rag oun hui dho Kodha Lhuyd; wy a yll gull da PA 37d
>>> rag dendel dyso kefyans BM 3076
>>> agas bannethow OM 464; agys bewnans TH 28a
>>> kumyas pesa BM 2778; mar pethama kibmiez NBoson
>>> ha teg the sight y lagasow TH 3a
>>> ev a brefyas lowre gow theis CW 818; an arghans a gemeras PA 103b
>>> ny strechyaff pell PA 158c
>>> E steran en Est Rowe.
>>> I dislike the SWF (without authentic graphs) but at least it is not
>>> Kernowek Kemmyn with all
>>> its mistaken underlying phonology.
>>> In the SWF the most inauthentic spellings are items like vynn and
>>> kummyas with geminate consonant.
>>> In SWF traditional we can substitute vydn and cubmyas, which are
>>> On 22 Nov 2008, at 19:48, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>>> his is something that I have a passion about and for this reason I
>>>> will not be using the Standard Form on a personal level.
>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>> Ray Chubb
>> Spellyans mailing list
>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> Craig Weatherhill
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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