craig at agantavas.org
Wed Feb 25 11:17:28 GMT 2009
I, too, have given up on the C24 language forum (although I continue
to participate in the general discussion forum, where I am keeping
people informed about such things as the Save Penwith Moors campaign).
Basically, I am sick and tired of being insulted for the sin of
holding views. The forum has become a waste of time, trying to deal
with people who are utterly determined to hold fast to a narrow and
ultimately doomed doctrine. I am tired of seeing gratuitous insults
hurled at outstanding scholars such as Nicholas and, in his own field,
Bernard. Or at people whose purpose in life is to construct and
create, such as Michael and Eddie. The situation becomes worse when
such insulting behaviour is being perpetrated by people who have
produced, contributed and created nothing at all: Bailey, Dunbar,
Reeves, Saunders, etc.
Lostwithiel showed those of us who attended that rank and file KK
adherents are generally people like ourselves - willing to look at
alternatives, discuss constructively and with people of differing
views. C24 shows us that the split in the language revival movement
was created and maintained by a tiny handful of utterly destructive
people who are not interested in the future of the Cornish language,
only their own agendas which need to be seriously examined in order to
ascertain their real motives.
Many on this list have changed and adapted their views and
preferences, often with unease, to achieve a language for the present
and future which does not inflict damage upon its natural development
history. However, in a view I have always held, the latter is
precisely what Kernewek Kemmyn did and, seemingly, without conscience
I was introduced to Unified Cornish by the late Peter Pool and, later,
to Late Cornish by Richard Gendall. Nicholas Williams's work to
produce UCR showed me that gaps could be bridged and possibly healed.
The move towards the SWF and the teamwork that debated, discussed and
built Kernowek Standard, brick by brick, proved that Cornish users
from across the board could indeed work together as a team and produce
something outstanding and, meanwhile the SWF/T turned out to be
something very close indeed to it, while the KK hardcore merely threw
every obstruction they could in its path (and failed). I continue to
contribute whatever I can to the KS project while teaching beginners
in the SWF/T And yet, I am accused of intransigence!!!!
It is doubtful that I will ever become a fluent speaker of Cornish but
can still contribute in my own specialist fields. For me, fluency
doesn't matter as long as I can do something to ensure fluent speakers
in future generations.
Doubtless, Reeves will put this post onto C24, as he is accustomed to
doing, and as he has nothing better to do. Not that it contains
anything that is news.
I apologise for sounding off on this discussion list but perhaps I'll
be forgiven for doing so. The point is that the majority of Cornish
users, including all who take part on this list, want to forge a real
future for the language. It is only a tiny handful whose aim is to
destroy it. We should acknowledge that it is only a tiny handful,
upon whom we should waste no more of our valuable time. They are
simply not worth our attention.
On 25 Whe 2009, at 10:30, Michael Everson wrote:
> I resigned from C24 the other day. It was wasting my time. I'll go
> back to it to announce more publications. A word, however, to our
> "nemesis" Keith Bailey, with whom some of us have jousted for three
> or four years.
> On 15 Jan 2009, at 11:52, Keith Bailey wrote:
>>> Michael Everson said:
>>> I asked you a question. You were courteous to me. Then you
>>> attacked me in public, again. Why? Never mind "why should I answer
>>> you?". Why were you courteous to me and then nasty again a short
>>> time later?
>> I have no personal animosity towards you.
> I don't believe you, Keith. Just yesterday on C24 you suggested on a
> public forum that I shìt my books out of my arse. In what way does
> this not display "personal animosity"?
>> What happens on C24 is 90% politics, as you must realise. Well
>> maybe you don't?
> That is no reason for such incivility.
>> In any case you appear to be a little over-sensitive at times.
> My my. Is taking offence a the kinds of abuse you fling at me "over-
> I think I know the answer. It's something you said nearly two years
> On 13 Mar 2007, at 14:29, mongvras wrote:
>> You are not just a bunch of pathetic losers, you are a bunch of
>> PATHETIC BAD LOSERS! You deserve no respect.
> I think you should look in a mirror. You and your friends refused to
> talk with UdnFormScrefys about a Fifth Form. You insisted that the
> Commissioners should examine all of the materials sent to them. (We
> sent them dictionaries; I am sure you did the same. We sent them our
> personal statements; I am sure you did the same. You've complained
> that they did not engage in follow-up discussion with you, but we
> had the same treatment.) Ken would not talk to us about a Fifth Form
> because he wanted KK to have its day in court. It did. It was not
> chosen, and a Fifth Form was.
> Then you managed to get 4 KK supporters onto the AHG, balancing 2 UC/
> R supporters and 2 RLC supporters, and you managed to succeed in
> refusing *me* a place amongst the 2 UC/R supporters (despite the
> fact that the Commissioners said each group should have the RIGHT to
> choose whom they wished), AND you managed to even prevent me from
> turning up to give a short discussion of the principles of KS. You
> were very successful there. And you created a hierarchy where KK's
> "aesthetic" glyphs are "Main" and the "Traditional" form contains
> forms which are not traditional. I suppose you have noticed that
> even despite Bock and Bruch's waffle in the SWF spec, KK's bogus
> phonology is pretty much off the table.
> And it *is* bogus. There's not a shred of fortis or lenis in the
> English dialects of Cornwall; even had it been there in the earliest
> Middle Cornish, bilingualism and Sprachbund erased it pretty quick,
> probably about the time that fortis /N/ broke into pre-occlusion
> because English learners of Cornish couldn't manage /N/, and here
> even Jenner says that pre-occlusion must have been spoken long
> before it was written.
> Yet you hold these unpronounceable consonants to be sacrosanct, a
> goal to be aspired to, even though your own teachers don't use them
> and don't teach them because it's unnatural to them.
> You think *KK phonology* is more important than good books and
> authentic grammar. You think *KK phonology* is more important than a
> credible Cornish phonology which unsurprisingly is not unrelated to
> the phonology of English in Cornwall -- just as it must have been in
> reality. You scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to find reasons
> to dislike beautiful new publications like "Alys in Pow an Anethow"
> and "Adro dhe'n Bÿs in Peswar Ugans Dëdh". It sure makes you look
> "pathetic", if not a "loser", or even a "pathetic bad loser".
> I asked the Commissioners for a proper Orthography Congress, where
> your linguists and our linguists would be put in a room and told to
> devise a Fifth Form with a design brief based on identified
> requirements. We got the AHG instead. I think that had we all been
> put in such a room, we would have come out with something a lot like
> KS, since we would have been forced to accept that realism in
> phonology makes better sense than impractical reconstructivism.
> Oddly, Keith, in July of last year you criticized the Gorseth for
> being linked to "some imaginary past full of druids and celtic myst"
> yet your attachment to George's Bretonized phonology is little more
> than "anything-but-Englishism" based on the same Celtic-myst
> befogged fantasy.
> Will the penny drop, I wonder? Probably not. You probably will never
> give up the idea that the Kesva should "run" the Revival, that
> geminates should drip off the tongues of Cornish schoolchildren, and
> that "in whir" is Cornish. You'll probably stew away angrily I feel
> sorry for you, because it's your attitude which perpetuates the
> split in the Revival. You oughtn't go blaming us. You ought to look
> into the mirror and see who the loser is.
> We were all losers already. We chose it. We gave up UC and UCR. For
> something better. It was worth it.
> I don't hope for a conversion from you Keith. It would be splendid
> if you could surprise me. Think what wonderful books we might make
> if we all worked together.
> But I imagine that what I've written is more a fit of spring
> cleaning than anything else.
> Back to work. I've got books to publish.
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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