[Spellyans] 'flood'

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Wed Mar 11 14:34:30 GMT 2009


Is it not true to say that, in some Cornish texts, 'v' represents 'u'?

Craig


On 11 Mer 2009, at 14:29, Nicholas Williams wrote:

> In a word, no. Lywe, lyw and lew appear to have a final [w]. So there
> were probably two form lyw and lyv.
>
> On 3/11/09, Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com> wrote:
>> Nicholas,
>> When one asserts that something "is not likely" that implies that  
>> there is quantitative evidence to support the assertion. However  
>> your evidence is not quantitative. Instead you provide an analogy  
>> with the words 'knyvyas' and 'knew'. Of course, this example  
>> assumes that the <w> is not actually pronounced [v]. Your analogy  
>> with Lhuyds "kynyphan" and -knowek found in toponyms suggests that  
>> alternation might exist between [v] ~ [w] in some Cornish words.  
>> Such alternation between kynyphan and -knowek does not necessarily  
>> entail corresponding alternation between a putative 'lyw' and and  
>> its plural 'lyvyow'. Given that we have the singular form <lyf>  
>> attested in the Ordinalia, and <Lyv> given by Lhuyd, don't you  
>> think that it is safer to assume that the final <-w> in CW and  
>> Tregear in fact represents [v].
>> Ol an gwella,
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicholas Williams" <njawilliams at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] 'flood'
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:49:58 +0000
>>>
>>>
>>> But it is not likely that CW lyw/lywe and Tregear's lew both had  
>>> [v].
>>> I believe the final segment was [w]. Cf. Lhuyd's kuniviaz 'to shear'
>>> and Tregear's
>>> the vos knevys y knew the veis 'to have his fleece shorn off' TH 23.
>>> Here the verb is knevyas, knevys but the noun is knew.
>>> A further instance is Lhuyds kynyphan 'nut' but -knowek 'nutty' in  
>>> toponyms.
>>>
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>>> On 3/11/09, Michael Everson <everson at evertype.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11 Mar 2009, at 13:09, Jon Mills wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Middle Cornish <w> sometimes represents [v]. Given that we have
>>>> attestations with final <-f>, I think we can assume that this  
>>>> word ends in
>>>> [-v]. Incidentally, Lhuyd (1707: 54c) writes "Lyv". The  
>>>> pronunciation is
>>>> [lɪv].
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd tend to prefer "lyv" to "liv" or "lyw" for this ord.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________
>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>> University of Kent
>>
>>
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--
Craig Weatherhill





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