[Spellyans] Abbreviating Ordinal Numbers

Jon Mills j.mills at email.com
Wed Mar 25 15:56:49 GMT 2009

'Nessa' is well attested in Late Cornish in the sense of 'second'. "Ha
Deewe Grihaz an ebbarn neeve ha gothuhar ha Metthen o a nessa Jornah"
(Keigwin - Gwavas MSS f117r) "Ha Deu kries an ebron neve, ha gethihuer ha
metten vo nessa jorna." (John Boson - Gwavas MSS f.126) "Kensa Blethan,
Byrla a' Baye,                   | The first Year, Hugg and Kiss,
Nessa Blethan, Lull a' Laye,                      | The Second Year, Lull
and Laye,
Tridgya Blethan, Hann a' Drubba,             | The Third Year, Take and
Poswarra Blethan, Mol a Dew war ef       | The Fourth Year, The Curse of
God on Him
Reeg dry hy uppa.                                    |  that brought her
here." (William Allen in Tonkin MSS B: 207.c)
"1 Kensa, vrt an hagar auall iggeva gweell do derevoll warneny
Keniffer termen drerany moas durt pedden an wolas do sillan &c.
2 Nessa, vrt an skauoll Crackan codna iggeva setha war en crees
an aules ewhall heb drogi veeth.
3 tregya, vrt an Gurroll iggeva gweell gen askern skooth davas,
&c." (Nicholas Boson, "The Duchess of Cornwall's Progress" Bodleian MS.
Carte 269)
Ol an gwella,Jon

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "nicholas williams"
  To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Abbreviating Ordinal Numbers
  Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:47:02 +0000

  Once you allow distinction in usage between traditional Cornish and
  revived Cornish, you are really saying that revived Cornish is a
  conlang. That I will not do.
  Nessa means 'next'; secùnd means 'second.'
  Lhuyd gives the ordinals as: Kenza The first;  Tridzha, The third;
  Pazuera, The fourth… AB: 243b. He does not give any Cornish for
  'second', apparently because he had heard secùnd only—which he did
  not consider Cornish.
  In Origo Mundi God the Father says: 
  yn secund dyth y fynnagruthyl ebron nef' hynwys OM 17-8.
  St Meriasek says:
  in meys est an viijves dethan secund feer sur a vethsensys in pov
  benytha BM 2197-99.
  In the Creation of the World God the Father when creating the angels
  in second degre yfithe gwryestry order moy yn sertan CW 51-2.
  When creating heaven and earth he says:
  lebmyn yn second jornagwraf broster a thesempys CW 80-1.
  John Tregear speaks of an nessa homely 'the next homily TH 5 and in
  nessa homelie TH 46 'in the next homily'.He uses second 'second' 16
  times and seconde 'second' five times.
  Nessa 'second' is an unfortunate invention of the early revivalists
  and we should not encourage it.

  On 25 Mar 2009, at 13:23, Daniel Prohaska wrote:

    Nicholas,It is not a fiction. It is widely used in Revived
    Cornish. Hence it is real. It is not traditional Cornish. I
    wrote, I have seen the abbreviations I quoted. I didn’t say I
    recommend them.Dan


    From: nicholas williams
    Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:09 PMThis is a fiction. The
    Cornish for second is secùnd.On 25 Mar 2009, at 11:40, Daniel
    Prohaska wrote:

    2a nessa _______________________________________________
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Dr. Jon Mills,
School of European Culture and Languages,
University of Kent

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