[Spellyans] Abbreviating Ordinal Numbers

Hewitt, Stephen s.hewitt at unesco.org
Wed Mar 25 16:05:39 GMT 2009

"First,...next,...third,...fourth..." How natural! Jon Mills really ought to have thought of that!
Steve Hewitt

-----Original Message-----
From: spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net]On Behalf Of nicholas williams
Sent: 25 March 2009 17:03
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Abbreviating Ordinal Numbers

In each of these cases nessa can be translated 'next'. 

On 25 Mar 2009, at 15:56, Jon Mills wrote:

'Nessa' is well attested in Late Cornish in the sense of 'second'.
"Ha Deewe Grihaz an ebbarn neeve ha gothuhar ha Metthen o a nessa Jornah" (Keigwin - Gwavas MSS f117r)
"Ha Deu kries an ebron neve, ha gethihuer ha metten vo nessa jorna." (John Boson - Gwavas MSS f.126)
"Kensa Blethan, Byrla a' Baye,                   | The first Year, Hugg and Kiss,
Nessa Blethan, Lull a' Laye,                      | The Second Year, Lull and Laye,
Tridgya Blethan, Hann a' Drubba,             | The Third Year, Take and Bring,
Poswarra Blethan, Mol a Dew war ef       | The Fourth Year, The Curse of God on Him
Reeg dry hy uppa.                                    |  that brought her here."
 (William Allen in Tonkin MSS B: 207.c)

"1 Kensa, vrt an hagar auall iggeva gweell do derevoll warneny
Keniffer termen drerany moas durt pedden an wolas do sillan &c.
2 Nessa, vrt an skauoll Crackan codna iggeva setha war en crees
an aules ewhall heb drogi veeth.
3 tregya, vrt an Gurroll iggeva gweell gen askern skooth davas,
&c." (Nicholas Boson, "The Duchess of Cornwall's Progress" Bodleian MS. Carte 269)

Ol an gwella,

----- Original Message -----
From: "nicholas williams" 
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" 
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Abbreviating Ordinal Numbers
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:47:02 +0000

Once you allow distinction in usage between traditional Cornish and revived Cornish, you are really saying that revived Cornish is a conlang. That I will not do. 

Nessa means 'next'; secùnd means 'second.'

Lhuyd gives the ordinals as: Kenza The first;  Tridzha, The third; Pazuera, The fourth… AB: 243b. He does not give any Cornish for 'second', apparently because he had heard secùnd only—which he did not consider Cornish.

In Origo Mundi God the Father says: 

yn secund dyth y fynna
gruthyl ebron nef' hynwys OM 17-8.

St Meriasek says:

in meys est an viijves deth
an secund feer sur a veth
sensys in pov benytha BM 2197-99.

In the Creation of the World God the Father when creating the angels says:

in second degre yfithe gwryes
try order moy yn sertan CW 51-2.

When creating heaven and earth he says:

lebmyn yn second jorna
gwraf broster a thesempys CW 80-1.

John Tregear speaks of an nessa homely 'the next homily TH 5 and in nessa homelie TH 46 'in the next homily'.
He uses second 'second' 16 times and seconde 'second' five times.

Nessa 'second' is an unfortunate invention of the early revivalists and we should not encourage it.



On 25 Mar 2009, at 13:23, Daniel Prohaska wrote:

It is not a fiction. It is widely used in Revived Cornish. Hence it is real. It is not traditional Cornish. I wrote, I have seen the abbreviations I quoted. I didn’t say I recommend them.


From: nicholas williams
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:09 PM
This is a fiction. The Cornish for second is secùnd.
On 25 Mar 2009, at 11:40, Daniel Prohaska wrote:

2a         nessa

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Dr. Jon Mills,

School of European Culture and Languages,

University of Kent

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