[Spellyans] Place names

Fri Jan 29 11:21:31 GMT 2010

A Craig ker hag an gowetha-oll,

I support  this list of principles and priorities very strongly, and I think 
it is a highly systematic, professional and proper approach.

I do feel that if alternatives and deviations from this are proposed and 
attempted to be settled by simple majoritarian approaches of those present, 
these should be referred to professional and specialist expertise, and that 
these processes should be transparent.

Do please ensure that this process keeps the wider public interest informed 
of progress.

Pub nerth yn an ober-ma - an Ken ken

Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-

ken at ferintosh.org
and also at:-
ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com

My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
Scotland  UK

Tel: 01349 - 863460

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Place names

>I meant to do this yesterday but - the best-laid plans of mice and
> Craigs . . .
>
> These are the bullet-point summaries of my suggested policy for modern
> representation of historic place-names (which I define as those which
> were in place at the beginning of the Cornish revival in 1904):
>
> * Prime consideration should be given to protecting the historical
> integrity of each name, be it of Cornish or non-Cornish origin (and
> that each be properly and fully researched).
>
> * Where current names show Old Cornish characteristics (i.e. non-
> assibilated consonants), these should be retained unless historic
> forms show that an evolutionary change did, in fact, occur.
>
> * Late Cornish features, such as pre-occlusion and the substitution of
> <j> for <s>, should be included, but only where found.
>
> * Mutation should not introduced where it did not occur in current and
> historic forms of a name, but should be retained where it occurs, even
> where, in theory, it should not have done so.
>
> * Old Cornish Ti- (Ty-) should be retained where it has persisted to
> the present day, and not converted to the later form Chi- (Chy-).  (Ti/
> Ty names seem to be exclusive to major manorial centres, and the Old
> form may have been retained as a symbol of prestige).
>
> * Names of Celtic and Biblical saints should not be preceded in
> toponyms by Sen, Sent, in accordance with historical practice.
>
> * Place-names of non-Cornish origin often fail to translate directly
> or satisfactorily into Cornish and, with the exception of major and
> long-established modern coinages such as Aberfal, should not undergo
> translation in order to protect their own individual histories.
> Exceptions can be made where a name of non-Cornish origin has an
> historically attested Cornish alternative.
>
> * Division of elements within reconstructed toponyms is a matter for
> debate and further discussion may be considered appropriate.
>
> * Where the derivation of a toponym is unknown or uncertain, an
> historically attested spelling should be carefully selected.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 28 Gen 2010, at 16:09, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>
>> Silly woman argued against bilingual signage, saying it would
>> confuse her 'constituents*'.  Hardly - her Ward is in the old
>> Kerrier area (Troon and Beacon) where bilingual street name signage
>> has been in place for several years!
>>
>> *Note that some of these councillors now have 'constituencies' as
>> though they're MPs.  Sheer pretentiousness.  They are still Wards.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 28 Gen 2010, at 15:44, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> I have a word for this 'cultural false consciousness'.   A good
>>> example of this was Councillr Morwenna Williams on Inside Out last
>>> Monday.  She thought that the use of Cornish language made the
>>> Cornish people look ridiculous.  She might have set a good example
>>> herself by changing her name.
>>>
>>> - an Ken ken
>>>
>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>
>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>> and also at:-
>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>
>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>
>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>> Scotland  UK
>>>
>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Tom Trethewey
>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Place names
>>>
>>> There is a very good "reason for it".  The Cornish form (I favour
>>> Eglosveryan) indicates the pronunciation, while the Anglicized St
>>> Buryan is ambiguous in this respect.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 28/1/10, John Nash <mim.oldwellstudio at btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: John Nash <mim.oldwellstudio at btinternet.com>
>>> Subject: [Spellyans] Place names
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Date: Thursday, 28 January, 2010, 10:12
>>>
>>> How much support are people finding for Cornish to be used in
>>> public signage? I recently mailed St Buryan Parish council to ask
>>> why our very nice brand new village sign didn't include somehwere
>>> the name in Cornish, as this wouldn't have added to the cost. The
>>> answer was simply that "they saw no reason for it" and that "of the
>>> eleven councillors, ten were St Buryan born and bred".
>>> Oll an gwella
>>> John Nash
>>> Lamorna (Sadly, not born and bred in St Buryan)
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Craig Weatherhill
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Spellyans mailing list
>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
> --
> Craig Weatherhill
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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