[Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes

Fri Jan 29 16:29:33 GMT 2010

Craig,

There is a policy ( + / - ) for Gaelic place-names, and is in course of 
being strengthened.   It is in course of being taken into the language 
planning process as a corpus / usage matter.  Your best bet is Peadar Morgan 
who is the appropriate Bord na Gaidhlig officer on this.

peadar.morgan at bord-na-gaidhlig.org.uk

I have discussed this issue of Cornish placenames with him.  You may recall 
he addressed the CLP conference at Tremough about 3 years ago.

I am aware of a placenames policy in Wales.  Originally it was handled by 
the Univ of Wales Board of Celtic Studies and they published an 
authoritative list Rhestr o Enwau Lleoedd at about the time of the Bowen 
Commission on Welsh / bilingual roadsigns.    I am not sure who handles this 
now - but I would imagine that the authoritative source for placename forms 
and spellings is probably still the Board   I imagine if asked the Welsh 
Language Board would come back PDQ with what is current practice.

I imagine too that Peadar would get back to you ASAP if you emailed him.

I think there is strength in quoting precedent in other Celtic contexts. 
In Scotland and Wales the matter is determined by specialist, expert advice. 
It is not settled by majority of hands at committees.

I am very much with you that placenames are for all.  This means that they 
have to be authentic, grounded on sound linguistic / onomastic principles 
and acceptable to a wider public than the various language groups alone.   I 
am very pleased if Oliver is of similar views.

- pub nerth dhys rag an ober - Ken

Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-

ken at ferintosh.org
and also at:-
ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com

My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
Scotland  UK

Tel: 01349 - 863460

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes

> Ken,
>
> This advice is very kind of you.  Is there an adopted policy for
> Gaelic place-name representation in Scotland?  Nicholas and Michael -
> is there such a policy in Ireland? Does anyone know if one is in place
> for Welsh place-names?  Or Breton ones?
>
> If so, can I get hold of copies?  If there is such precedent, then
> these can only help in formulating one for Cornwall.
>
> Pol and Julyan seem to think that such signage/map representation is
> for Cornish speakers only.  My argument is different - it's for
> everyone (Oliver seems to agree with that).
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 27 Gen 2010, at 10:23, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>
>> Craig,
>>
>> Many thanks for quick reply.   Spelling issues on placename forms
>> are a most imnportant corpus issue.
>>
>> I hope very much that you feel the strength of group support with
>> you on this.  I am sure that Oliver will have strong and positive
>> views on this informed with a great deal of expertise.  He is after
>> all President of EPNS and can speak with authority.
>>
>> Our own experience in Scotland in setting up AAA ( Ainmean Aite na
>> h- Alba - Gaelic Placenamnes of Scotland) - and incorporating this
>> in the official Gaelic language planning process is proving most
>> helpful.
>> and is beginning to show in the environment.
>>
>> Unity is strength and I would suggest that some liaison with this
>> body will be helpful as a resource and as an exemplar of experience.
>>
>> If I can assist in connections shall be glad to do so.
>>
>> Kemer wyth - an Ken ken
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>
>> ken at ferintosh.org
>> and also at:-
>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>
>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>
>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>> Scotland  UK
>>
>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" 
>> <craig at agantavas.org
>> >
>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>
>>
>>> Yes, Ken, both Oliver and I are included.  Our first meeting was last
>>> Friday.  That established little more than a basic working practice
>>> policy and the fact that I will have my work heavily cut out to
>>> banish
>>> non-traditional graphs from historic place-names.  I will need to
>>> have
>>> steel heels fitted for the amount of digging in I'll have to do
>>> against Pol and Julyan..
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 16:01, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Craig and friends.
>>>>
>>>> I watched the Inside Out programme courtesy of Sky.   My own
>>>> thoughts were that it did not get us very much further forward.   I
>>>> contributed over an hour of recorded speech - but little more than a
>>>> couple of snippets were used ( in my view on somewhat perpheral
>>>> issues).
>>>>
>>>> The programme contained a lot of stereoptyping, and I thought that
>>>> Mick Catmull would have gotten a bit beyond this onto more salient
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that CLP have set up a placenames working group.   I
>>>> very much trust that people like yourself, Craig , and Oliver Padel
>>>> have been included.
>>>>
>>>> Jenefer and Nev Meek are due to attend a British & Irish seminar on
>>>> language legislation next week in Edinburgh - and I hope to have the
>>>> opportunity of a session with them on current issues.
>>>>
>>>> - oll an gwella - an Ken ken
>>>>
>>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>>
>>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>>> and also at:-
>>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>>
>>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>>
>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>>> Scotland  UK
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" 
>>>> <craig at agantavas.org
>>>> >
>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I did see this.  Some presenter/interviewer from way out of
>>>>> Cornwall, perpetuating the Dolly Pentreath list and with the usual
>>>>> sneery attitude we've come to expect from the BBC.  'Do you speak
>>>>> Cornish?' he asked the barmaid.  'No," she replied.  'Thank God for
>>>>> that,' he said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, Mick, Ray and Denise held their own.  Rather well, I
>>>>> thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've missed the Radio Cornwall programme today on which some
>>>>> academic
>>>>> from the University of Durham is being allowed to opine that the
>>>>> Cornish, as a people, don't exist.  (If this was done against a
>>>>> black
>>>>> or Asian group, there would be all hell to pay and probably
>>>>> prosecutions as well).  Ok, so I don't exist, therefore this
>>>>> message
>>>>> has never been sent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 14:42, j.mills at email.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For those who missed the BBC broadcast concerning the Cornish
>>>>>> language (Monday 25 January), it can be found on BBC iPLayer at
>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qg3bb/Inside_Out_South_West_25_01_2010/
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> Fast forward to about 9 mins 50 secs into the programme for the
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> concerning the Cornish language.
>>>>>> Ol an gwella
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>> _____________________________________
>>>>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>>>>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>>>>>> University of Kent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Craig Weatherhill
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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