[Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Fri Jan 29 17:51:11 GMT 2010


Many thanks, Ken.  I was reminded of what Albert and Ben wrote when  
describing their KD proposal prior to the Commissioners'  
recommendations.  What they had to say, I totally agree with and  
attach it here.  I will do the same to the Signage Panel and hope it  
encourages some of them to see sense.

Craig
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On 29 Gen 2010, at 16:29, Ken MacKinnon wrote:

> Craig,
>
> There is a policy ( + / - ) for Gaelic place-names, and is in course  
> of being strengthened.   It is in course of being taken into the  
> language planning process as a corpus / usage matter.  Your best bet  
> is Peadar Morgan who is the appropriate Bord na Gaidhlig officer on  
> this.
>
> peadar.morgan at bord-na-gaidhlig.org.uk
>
> I have discussed this issue of Cornish placenames with him.  You may  
> recall he addressed the CLP conference at Tremough about 3 years ago.
>
> I am aware of a placenames policy in Wales.  Originally it was  
> handled by the Univ of Wales Board of Celtic Studies and they  
> published an authoritative list Rhestr o Enwau Lleoedd at about the  
> time of the Bowen Commission on Welsh / bilingual roadsigns.    I am  
> not sure who handles this now - but I would imagine that the  
> authoritative source for placename forms and spellings is probably  
> still the Board   I imagine if asked the Welsh Language Board would  
> come back PDQ with what is current practice.
>
> I imagine too that Peadar would get back to you ASAP if you emailed  
> him.
>
> I think there is strength in quoting precedent in other Celtic  
> contexts. In Scotland and Wales the matter is determined by  
> specialist, expert advice. It is not settled by majority of hands at  
> committees.
>
> I am very much with you that placenames are for all.  This means  
> that they have to be authentic, grounded on sound linguistic /  
> onomastic principles and acceptable to a wider public than the  
> various language groups alone.   I am very pleased if Oliver is of  
> similar views.
>
> - pub nerth dhys rag an ober - Ken
>
>
>
>
> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>
> ken at ferintosh.org
> and also at:-
> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>
> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
> Scotland  UK
>
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org 
> >
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes
>
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> This advice is very kind of you.  Is there an adopted policy for
>> Gaelic place-name representation in Scotland?  Nicholas and Michael -
>> is there such a policy in Ireland? Does anyone know if one is in  
>> place
>> for Welsh place-names?  Or Breton ones?
>>
>> If so, can I get hold of copies?  If there is such precedent, then
>> these can only help in formulating one for Cornwall.
>>
>> Pol and Julyan seem to think that such signage/map representation is
>> for Cornish speakers only.  My argument is different - it's for
>> everyone (Oliver seems to agree with that).
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 27 Gen 2010, at 10:23, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> Many thanks for quick reply.   Spelling issues on placename forms
>>> are a most imnportant corpus issue.
>>>
>>> I hope very much that you feel the strength of group support with
>>> you on this.  I am sure that Oliver will have strong and positive
>>> views on this informed with a great deal of expertise.  He is after
>>> all President of EPNS and can speak with authority.
>>>
>>> Our own experience in Scotland in setting up AAA ( Ainmean Aite na
>>> h- Alba - Gaelic Placenamnes of Scotland) - and incorporating this
>>> in the official Gaelic language planning process is proving most
>>> helpful.
>>> and is beginning to show in the environment.
>>>
>>> Unity is strength and I would suggest that some liaison with this
>>> body will be helpful as a resource and as an exemplar of experience.
>>>
>>> If I can assist in connections shall be glad to do so.
>>>
>>> Kemer wyth - an Ken ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>
>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>> and also at:-
>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>
>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>
>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>> Scotland  UK
>>>
>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
>>> >
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, Ken, both Oliver and I are included.  Our first meeting was  
>>>> last
>>>> Friday.  That established little more than a basic working practice
>>>> policy and the fact that I will have my work heavily cut out to
>>>> banish
>>>> non-traditional graphs from historic place-names.  I will need to
>>>> have
>>>> steel heels fitted for the amount of digging in I'll have to do
>>>> against Pol and Julyan..
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 16:01, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Craig and friends.
>>>>>
>>>>> I watched the Inside Out programme courtesy of Sky.   My own
>>>>> thoughts were that it did not get us very much further  
>>>>> forward.   I
>>>>> contributed over an hour of recorded speech - but little more  
>>>>> than a
>>>>> couple of snippets were used ( in my view on somewhat perpheral
>>>>> issues).
>>>>>
>>>>> The programme contained a lot of stereoptyping, and I thought that
>>>>> Mick Catmull would have gotten a bit beyond this onto more salient
>>>>> issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that CLP have set up a placenames working group.   I
>>>>> very much trust that people like yourself, Craig , and Oliver  
>>>>> Padel
>>>>> have been included.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenefer and Nev Meek are due to attend a British & Irish seminar  
>>>>> on
>>>>> language legislation next week in Edinburgh - and I hope to have  
>>>>> the
>>>>> opportunity of a session with them on current issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> - oll an gwella - an Ken ken
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>>>
>>>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>>>> and also at:-
>>>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>>>> Scotland  UK
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I did see this.  Some presenter/interviewer from way out of
>>>>>> Cornwall, perpetuating the Dolly Pentreath list and with the  
>>>>>> usual
>>>>>> sneery attitude we've come to expect from the BBC.  'Do you speak
>>>>>> Cornish?' he asked the barmaid.  'No," she replied.  'Thank God  
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> that,' he said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, Mick, Ray and Denise held their own.  Rather well, I
>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've missed the Radio Cornwall programme today on which some
>>>>>> academic
>>>>>> from the University of Durham is being allowed to opine that the
>>>>>> Cornish, as a people, don't exist.  (If this was done against a
>>>>>> black
>>>>>> or Asian group, there would be all hell to pay and probably
>>>>>> prosecutions as well).  Ok, so I don't exist, therefore this
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> has never been sent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 14:42, j.mills at email.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those who missed the BBC broadcast concerning the Cornish
>>>>>>> language (Monday 25 January), it can be found on BBC iPLayer at
>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qg3bb/Inside_Out_South_West_25_01_2010/
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> Fast forward to about 9 mins 50 secs into the programme for the
>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>> concerning the Cornish language.
>>>>>>> Ol an gwella
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>> _____________________________________
>>>>>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>>>>>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>>>>>>> University of Kent
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Craig Weatherhill
>>
>>
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--
Craig Weatherhill



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