[Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)

janicelobb at tiscali.co.uk janicelobb at tiscali.co.uk
Thu Jul 22 23:44:02 BST 2010


I have on my computer a PDF of Late Cornish by Iwan Wmffre (1998). I don't know if this is the same one as or different from the handbook you are seeking. Sadly, I can't remember how I acquired it! But it is very interesting. I could probably email it to anyone who wanted it.
And while I'm here, please can anyone give me examples of the use of "white" in whatever manifestation meaning "holy" in place names or texts?And does anyone know the customs, etc. associated with White Thursday (Chewidn) a clear week before Christmas?Ol an gwelha!Jan




----Original Message----

From: butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com

Date: 22/07/2010 21:21 

To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"<spellyans at kernowek.net>

Subj: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)







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Dear Folks,
 
Sadly my old rattle-bones of a computer just 
won't open up the link to this fascinating topic of  /l/ /ll/ and /lh/ 
sounds. Is the last one related in any way to Welsh /ll/? 
 
References to both the late Seamus O'Coilean's 
Cornish thesis and Iwan Wmffre's Handbook are most tantalising. It's made 
me go back and look again at my cherished copy of Tavas A Ragadazow though I had 
made the decision to get seriously stuck into Unified once and for all 
while awaiting the finalised version of the  SWF  which I believe is 
due to be hammered out ( or finely honed?!) in 2012. I'm not sure why folk keep 
saying learning LC isn't easy. It strikes me as a deal simpler than dear, 
old UC.
Incidentally, in pursuit of disciplined 
acquisition I had also decuded to do Hilary Shaw's course but I got no reply. 
Anyone have her current contact details? I'll include stamp for reply this 
time! 
 
Pup bennath! ( ben nath?!)
 
Ewan. 
  

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Daniel Prohaska 
  To: 'Standard Cornish discussion list' 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:30 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, 
  <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)
  

  
  Ken, 
  
I’m not familiar with Seamus Ó Coileán’s thesis at all and would very much 
  be interested in it. Where can I find it? Have you read Iwan Wmffre’s 
  “Handbook of Late Cornish”? Also very 
interesting.
  Dan
   
  
  
  
  
  From: Ken 
  MacKinnon
Sent: Thursday, 
  July 22, 2010 11:24 AM
   
  
  A 
  gowetha,
  
   
  
  I wonder whether any professional empirical 
  studies have ever been undertaken on the remaining 'native speakers' of 
  the West Penwith dialect.  People like 
  Nance have urged that this dialect is the nearest thing we have to the sound 
  system of late Cornish.   That said, it surely deserves some serious 
  study, and I wonder whether there has been any serious proposal to research 
  it.
  
   
  
  In 1990 Seamus O Coilean successfully 
  presented a BA (Hons) by Independent Study thesis at the Polytechnic (now 
  University) of East London, entitled 'Late 
  Cornish - an accurate reconstruction for the sound system'.  I have read 
  this and I wonder whether others are familar with it.  It presented some 
  interesting and original ideas, and I would be interested to know what 
  others may have thought about it.
  
   
  
  - Ken
  
   
  
   
  
  Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  
  with new e-mail addresses:-
  
   
  
  ken at ferintosh.org
and also at:-
ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
  
   
  
  My former e-mail addresses are no longer 
  able to be used.
  
   
  
  (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
Ivy Cottage, 
  Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV 7 
  8HX
Scotland  
  UK
  
   
  
  Tel: 01349 - 
  863460
  
   
  
   
  
    
    ----- Original 
    Message ----- 
    
    From: j.mills at email.com 
    
    
    To: spellyans at kernowek.net 
    
    
    Sent: Thursday, July 22, 
    2010 8:52 AM
    
    Subject: Re: [Spellyans] 
    <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter 
    (1576)
    
     
    
    Is this 
    one example the only evidence for "the survival of geminate [ll] in the St. 
    Ives dialect of Anglo-Cornish well into the 20th century" (Bock 2010: 3)? Or 
    is there further evidence?
    
    Ol an 
    gwella (or should that be gwelha?)
    
    Jon
    
    _____________________________________ 
Dr. Jon Mills, 
    
School of European Culture and Languages, 
University of 
    Kent
     
    
    -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Weatherhill 
    <craig at agantavas.org>
To: Standard 
    Cornish discussion list 
    <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2010 7:00 
    pm
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in 
    Sacrament an Alter (1576)
    
    I must have mentioned the late Cecil Roberts of Sennen Cove, who 
    would pronounce the LL of "Scilly' as though he were saying "still life". 
    Dick Gendall heard and noted him, too. Terry George, also of Sennen Cove and 
    the former lifeboat cox'n, pronounces "enys" (as in Enys Dodnan) as "ain-ez" 
    ("ai" as in "air"). 
 
Craig 
 
 
On 
    21 Gor 2010, at 17:18, Ray Chubb wrote: 
 
> I think one 
    thing we can be sure of is that the St Ives > pronunciation certainly did 
    not come from English. 
> 
> On 21 Gor 2010, at 12:24, 
    j.mills at email.com 
    wrote: 
> 
>> Comments please on Bock's recent 
    paper. 
>> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/albert.bock/archive/l_ll_lh_SA.pdf 
>> 
>> 
    Ol an gwella, 
>> Jon 
>> 
    _____________________________________ 
>> Dr. Jon 
    Mills, 
>> School of European Culture and 
    Languages, 
>> University of Kent 
>> 
    _______________________________________________ 
>> Spellyans 
    mailing list 
>> Spellyans at kernowek.net 
>> 
    http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net 
> 
> 
    Ray Chubb 
> 
> Portreth 
> 
    Kernow 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
    _______________________________________________ 
> Spellyans 
    mailing list 
> Spellyans at kernowek.net 
> 
    http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net 
 
-- 
Craig 
    Weatherhill 
 
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