[Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)

Ken MacKinnon ken at ferintosh.org
Fri Jul 23 11:38:31 IST 2010


Jan,

I would really appreciate it if you are able please to e-mail Iwan Wmffre's Handbook to me as an e-mail attachment.

gans grassyans - Ken


Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-

ken at ferintosh.org
and also at:-
ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com

My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
Scotland  UK

Tel: 01349 - 863460


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: janicelobb at tiscali.co.uk 
  To: spellyans at kernowek.net 
  Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)


  I have on my computer a PDF of Late Cornish by Iwan Wmffre (1998). I don't know if this is the same one as or different from the handbook you are seeking. Sadly, I can't remember how I acquired it! But it is very interesting. I could probably email it to anyone who wanted it.


  And while I'm here, please can anyone give me examples of the use of "white" in whatever manifestation meaning "holy" in place names or texts?
  And does anyone know the customs, etc. associated with White Thursday (Chewidn) a clear week before Christmas?
  Ol an gwelha!
  Jan


    ----Original Message----
    From: butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
    Date: 22/07/2010 21:21 
    To: "Standard Cornish discussion list"<spellyans at kernowek.net>
    Subj: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)

     
    Dear Folks,

    Sadly my old rattle-bones of a computer just won't open up the link to this fascinating topic of  /l/ /ll/ and /lh/ sounds. Is the last one related in any way to Welsh /ll/? 

    References to both the late Seamus O'Coilean's Cornish thesis and Iwan Wmffre's Handbook are most tantalising. It's made me go back and look again at my cherished copy of Tavas A Ragadazow though I had made the decision to get seriously stuck into Unified once and for all while awaiting the finalised version of the  SWF  which I believe is due to be hammered out ( or finely honed?!) in 2012. I'm not sure why folk keep saying learning LC isn't easy. It strikes me as a deal simpler than dear, old UC.
    Incidentally, in pursuit of disciplined acquisition I had also decuded to do Hilary Shaw's course but I got no reply. Anyone have her current contact details? I'll include stamp for reply this time! 

    Pup bennath! ( ben nath?!)

    Ewan. 
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Daniel Prohaska 
      To: 'Standard Cornish discussion list' 
      Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)


      Ken, 
      I’m not familiar with Seamus Ó Coileán’s thesis at all and would very much be interested in it. Where can I find it? Have you read Iwan Wmffre’s “Handbook of Late Cornish”? Also very interesting.

      Dan




--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: Ken MacKinnon
      Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:24 AM



      A gowetha,



      I wonder whether any professional empirical studies have ever been undertaken on the remaining 'native speakers' of the West Penwith dialect.  People like Nance have urged that this dialect is the nearest thing we have to the sound system of late Cornish.   That said, it surely deserves some serious study, and I wonder whether there has been any serious proposal to research it.



      In 1990 Seamus O Coilean successfully presented a BA (Hons) by Independent Study thesis at the Polytechnic (now University) of East London, entitled 'Late Cornish - an accurate reconstruction for the sound system'.  I have read this and I wonder whether others are familar with it.  It presented some interesting and original ideas, and I would be interested to know what others may have thought about it.



      - Ken





      Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-



      ken at ferintosh.org
      and also at:-
      ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com



      My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.



      (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
      Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
      The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
      Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
      Scotland  UK



      Tel: 01349 - 863460





        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: j.mills at email.com 

        To: spellyans at kernowek.net 

        Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:52 AM

        Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)



        Is this one example the only evidence for "the survival of geminate [ll] in the St. Ives dialect of Anglo-Cornish well into the 20th century" (Bock 2010: 3)? Or is there further evidence?

        Ol an gwella (or should that be gwelha?)

        Jon

        _____________________________________ 
        Dr. Jon Mills, 
        School of European Culture and Languages, 
        University of Kent



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org>
        To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
        Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2010 7:00 pm
        Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)

        I must have mentioned the late Cecil Roberts of Sennen Cove, who would pronounce the LL of "Scilly' as though he were saying "still life". Dick Gendall heard and noted him, too. Terry George, also of Sennen Cove and the former lifeboat cox'n, pronounces "enys" (as in Enys Dodnan) as "ain-ez" ("ai" as in "air"). 
         
        Craig 
         
         
        On 21 Gor 2010, at 17:18, Ray Chubb wrote: 
         
        > I think one thing we can be sure of is that the St Ives > pronunciation certainly did not come from English. 
        > 
        > On 21 Gor 2010, at 12:24, j.mills at email.com wrote: 
        > 
        >> Comments please on Bock's recent paper. 
        >> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/albert.bock/archive/l_ll_lh_SA.pdf 
        >> 
        >> Ol an gwella, 
        >> Jon 
        >> _____________________________________ 
        >> Dr. Jon Mills, 
        >> School of European Culture and Languages, 
        >> University of Kent 
        >> _______________________________________________ 
        >> Spellyans mailing list 
        >> Spellyans at kernowek.net 
        >> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net 
        > 
        > Ray Chubb 
        > 
        > Portreth 
        > Kernow 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > _______________________________________________ 
        > Spellyans mailing list 
        > Spellyans at kernowek.net 
        > http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net 
         
        -- 
        Craig Weatherhill 
         
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