[Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)

Ken MacKinnon ken at ferintosh.org
Fri Jul 23 15:32:11 IST 2010


Yes, Craig - but Dan says do not circulate to others without his permission. 
So you would be best to ask him direct.

- Ken

Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-

ken at ferintosh.org
and also at:-
ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com

My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.

(Prof) Ken MacKinnon
Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
Scotland  UK

Tel: 01349 - 863460


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter (1576)


Wonderful. Could I ask for a copy, please?

Craig


On 23 Gor 2010, at 11:46, Ken MacKinnon wrote:

> Craig wheg,
>
> I have just had a post from Dan Prohaska with a pdf of Iwan Wmffre's 
> Handbook attached.
>
> - Ken
>
>
> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>
> ken at ferintosh.org
> and also at:-
> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>
> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
> Scotland  UK
>
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" 
> <craig at agantavas.org
> >
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter  (1576)
>
>
> There's a copy of Wmffre's book is in St Just library.  I've only had
> a cursory look so far but it looks a bit strange.  I'll take it out
> and have a good look.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 22 Gor 2010, at 21:21, ewan wilson wrote:
>
>> Dear Folks,
>>
>> Sadly my old rattle-bones of a computer just won't open up the  link  to 
>> this fascinating topic of  /l/ /ll/ and /lh/ sounds. Is  the last  one 
>> related in any way to Welsh /ll/?
>>
>> References to both the late Seamus O'Coilean's Cornish thesis and   Iwan 
>> Wmffre's Handbook are most tantalising. It's made me go back   and look 
>> again at my cherished copy of Tavas A Ragadazow though I   had made the 
>> decision to get seriously stuck into Unified once and   for all while 
>> awaiting the finalised version of the  SWF  which I   believe is due to 
>> be hammered out ( or finely honed?!) in 2012.  I'm  not sure why folk 
>> keep saying learning LC isn't easy. It  strikes me  as a deal simpler 
>> than dear, old UC.
>> Incidentally, in pursuit of disciplined acquisition I had also   decuded 
>> to do Hilary Shaw's course but I got no reply. Anyone have   her current 
>> contact details? I'll include stamp for reply this time!
>>
>> Pup bennath! ( ben nath?!)
>>
>> Ewan.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Daniel Prohaska
>> To: 'Standard Cornish discussion list'
>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter 
>> (1576)
>>
>> Ken,
>> I’m not familiar with Seamus Ó Coileán’s thesis at all and would   very 
>> much be interested in it. Where can I find it? Have you read   Iwan 
>> Wmffre’s “Handbook of Late Cornish”? Also very interesting.
>> Dan
>>
>> From: Ken MacKinnon
>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:24 AM
>>
>> A gowetha,
>>
>> I wonder whether any professional empirical studies have ever been 
>> undertaken on the remaining 'native speakers' of the West Penwith 
>> dialect.  People like Nance have urged that this dialect is the   nearest 
>> thing we have to the sound system of late Cornish.   That   said, it 
>> surely deserves some serious study, and I wonder whether   there has been 
>> any serious proposal to research it.
>>
>> In 1990 Seamus O Coilean successfully presented a BA (Hons) by 
>> Independent Study thesis at the Polytechnic (now University) of  East 
>> London, entitled 'Late Cornish - an accurate reconstruction  for the 
>> sound system'.  I have read this and I wonder whether  others are 
>> familar with it.  It presented some interesting and  original ideas,  and 
>> I would be interested to know what others may  have thought about  it.
>>
>> - Ken
>>
>>
>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>
>> ken at ferintosh.org
>> and also at:-
>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>
>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>
>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>> Scotland  UK
>>
>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: j.mills at email.com
>> To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter 
>> (1576)
>>
>> Is this one example the only evidence for "the survival of  geminate 
>> [ll] in the St. Ives dialect of Anglo-Cornish well into  the 20th 
>> century" (Bock 2010: 3)? Or is there further evidence?
>> Ol an gwella (or should that be gwelha?)
>> Jon
>>
>> _____________________________________
>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>> University of Kent
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org>
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2010 7:00 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] <l>, <ll>, and <lh> in Sacrament an Alter 
>> (1576)
>>
>> I must have mentioned the late Cecil Roberts of Sennen Cove, who   would 
>> pronounce the LL of "Scilly' as though he were saying "still   life". 
>> Dick Gendall heard and noted him, too. Terry George, also  of  Sennen 
>> Cove and the former lifeboat cox'n, pronounces  "enys" (as in  Enys 
>> Dodnan) as "ain-ez" ("ai" as in "air").
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 21 Gor 2010, at 17:18, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>
>> > I think one thing we can be sure of is that the St Ives >
>> pronunciation certainly did not come from English.
>> >
>> > On 21 Gor 2010, at 12:24, j.mills at email.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Comments please on Bock's recent paper.
>> >> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/albert.bock/archive/l_ll_lh_SA.pdf
>> >>
>> >> Ol an gwella,
>> >> Jon
>> >> _____________________________________
>> >> Dr. Jon Mills,
>> >> School of European Culture and Languages,
>> >> University of Kent
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Spellyans mailing list
>> >> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>> >> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>> >
>> > Ray Chubb
>> >
>> > Portreth
>> > Kernow
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Spellyans mailing list
>> > Spellyans at kernowek.net
>> > http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>
>> -- 
>> Craig Weatherhill
>>
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>
> --
> Craig Weatherhill
>
>
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--
Craig Weatherhill


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