[Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF

Wed Jun 9 11:22:13 BST 2010

Many thanks, Steve.  One comment I must make is that the first map  
that comes up contains a howler:  Pedn Sans for Penzance.

Pen in this name isn't and can't be pre-occluded because it is  
unstressed (trad. pronunciation: p'n-ZANSS).

Craig

On 9 Efn 2010, at 10:49, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Lewis, Llawlyfr Cernyweg Canol, has long been out of print (I got my  
> copy from a bookseller in Australia!).
>
> There is a German version by Stefan Zimmer, Handbuch des  
> Mittelkornischen, Innsbruck, 1990, available from www.amazon.de at  
> €15.
>
> In the pdf at this address:
>
> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/albert.bock/archive/Kornisch.pdf
>
> a handout by Albert Bock, with lots of useful bibliographical and  
> other information.
>
> Best,
>
> Steve Hewitt
>
>
>
> From: spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net 
> ] On Behalf Of Ken MacKinnon
> Sent: 09 June 2010 11:40
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>
> Ewan ker hag an gowetha oll,
>
> Glanville Price was upposed to have brought out an English version  
> of the Llawlyfr some years ago.  But I have heard nothing since.   
> Does anyone have any news on this ?
>
> I very much share the views expressed here.  I suppose it has been  
> familiarity that has endeared me to UC - but it is very much the  
> case that having commenced the exams in this form I have continued  
> with them.
>
> It was Jenner who aimed to take up the language where it left off  
> and it has always seemed to me that his form of Cornish was  
> essentially Late Cornish but he spelled it in accordance with a more  
> traditional Cornish orthography.    That said it may not have been  
> too great a departure from this for KS to have been developed.
>
> So good luck with your decision, Ewan - you are by no means alone.    
> Eddie has reminded us that UC opens a considerable modern as a well  
> as a traditional literature.   That very much deserves to be  
> reclaimed.  I wonder whether someone like Alan kent and his  
> publisher Francis Boutle could be persuaded to put it between covers  
> for a contemporary  readership.
>
> gans gorhemmynadow / le deagh dhurachd - Ken
>
>
> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>
> ken at ferintosh.org
> and also at:-
> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>
> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
> Scotland  UK
>
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ewan wilson
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>
> Eddie,
>
> I think you have hit the nail on the head for why many of us are  
> instinctivelt attracted to UC ( and UCR, for that matter!) Its  
> grammar and orthography IS largely a standardising exercise and  
> combined with UCR's vocabulary enrichment one feels it really is  
> reflecting how the language worked and was used.
> As for the large corpus of UC literature it would seem silly  
> deliberately to cut oneself off from it by going for a quite altered  
> orthography. However I must also be honest and say I find the idea  
> of the Late Cornish very appealling too. Lots of hard research have  
> gone into it and one senses it IS the language of the later speakers  
> with whom it is putting us in touch.
> Would others agree that in some ways the UC/UCR- LC distinction  
> parallels the difference we find in Welsh between the Colloquial and  
> the Literary registers, or is there a bigger gulf?
>
> Anyway, it's good to know that if I continue with UC/UCR ( my own  
> favourite, I guess) it won't all be for nothing.
>
> Anyone have experience of the old Llawlyfr Cernyweg Canol by Lewis?  
> I know it's in Welsh but is it any good in its analysis of  
> MiddleCornish, and how does it tie in with UC? Or is it largely a  
> waste of money?
>
> Ewan.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eddie Climo
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 5:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>
>
> On 8 Efn 2010, at 16:29, Ray Chubb wrote:
>
>> Unified should not be looked at from a totally linguistic point of  
>> view.
>
> Agreed, but UC can stand up to such scrutiny. The group of people  
> who collaborated on designing UC were fine linguists who crafted  
> well. Moreover, their hearts were in the right place: not for them  
> the factional back-stabbing we've seen far too much of over the last  
> quarter century.
>
>> Nance's original aim of using an orthography based on historical  
>> Cornish at its zenith, simply standardising out some  
>> irregularities, is still a valid one and will remain an attractive  
>> one to future generations who have put some thought into which form  
>> of Cornish they are going to learn.
>
> Indeed. Unlike some forms of Revived Cornish, UC has stood the test  
> of time, and given Kernewegoryon over 80 years of valuable service.  
> It is, in my opinion, the classic form of revived Middle Cornish,  
> and is as valid now as it was when launched all those years ago. Its  
> designers have earned an honoured place in the history of our  
> language, unlike some of today's wannabes.
>
> Moreover, it has a massive literature that has built up over that  
> period, and the reality is that —despite the efforts of modern  
> bowdlerisers and plagiarists in the KKesva, and elsewhere— most of  
> it will never be republished in any other orthography. Anyone who  
> aspires to 'Tota Cornicitas' cannot simply wish that corpus away.
>
> In the face of this large corpus of UC, Kernewegoryon now and in the  
> years to come will be obliged (at the very least) to read UC, even  
> if they choose not to write it.
>
> Perhaps the same might be said by future generations (post 2013)  
> about the substantial (and growing corpus) of KS literature that is  
> currently being created.
>
>> Therefore Christian's opinion that Unified will only last until the  
>> current users die out could well be mistaken.
>
> I very much suspect it is mistaken. I, for one, love UC and will  
> continue to study and write in it.
>
> Gwren ny perthy cof a un poynt a skyans a glewas Jowan Chy an Horth  
> y'n whethel mur y vry:
>
>> "Kemer wyth na wreta gasa an forth coth rak an forth noweth."
>
>
> Eddie Foirbeis Climo
> - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- -
> Dres ethom akennow byner re bo lyeshes
> Accenti non multiplicandi praeter necessitatem
>
>
>
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--
Craig Weatherhill