[Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?

ewan wilson butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
Wed Jun 2 22:42:07 IST 2010


Craig,

I'll try not to extend this off-topic thread but I have to say your mention 
of the treasure trove in the Subscription Library whets the appetite!! Never 
realised it contained any such thing. Cornish language stuff amongst it?

Ewan.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?


> Bridgers was a well-known bookshop in Penzance and the last Mr Bridger 
> had the bookshop in Chapel Street (now the Penzance Bookshop, now run  by 
> Tim Wallace).  So, I'm afraid that Bridgers no longer exists as a 
> Penzance institution.
>
> Penzance has the Public Library in Morrab Road and also the Penzance 
> Subscription Library in Morrab House, Morrab Gardens.  The latter is a 
> treasure house (its recent President was John Cornwell, better known  as 
> John le Carre, who lives on the cliffs west of Lamorna Cove).
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 2 Efn 2010, at 08:07, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>
>> Many thanks for your response, Ewan.
>>
>> There is an issue of 'on topic' with this discussion group.    Strictly 
>> speaking I understand it to be confinedfairly strictly to  matters 
>> relating to spelling issues - especially around KS and the  SWF.
>>
>> We may be directed to conduct this correspondence separately from  the 
>> list. In that case, it would be as well to have your personal  email 
>> address.  Mine is below.
>>
>> I  looked for Bridger's Library recently - it is a bookshop.   Like  many 
>> such it seems to have succumbed.
>>
>> There are about a dozen or so worship services held in Cornwall  between, 
>> Anglican, Methodist and Catholic churches.  The Methodists  may be in the 
>> majority.  There are a number of local preachers who  are Cornish 
>> speakers and who conduct them.  ( I am probably unique  in Scotland as a 
>> Methodist local preacher who has actually conducted  services in Gaelic.)
>>
>> Best wishes for your continued Cornish studies. - Ken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>
>> ken at ferintosh.org
>> and also at:-
>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>
>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>
>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>> Scotland  UK
>>
>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ewan wilson" 
>> <butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
>> >
>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>
>>
>>> Dear Ken,
>>>
>>> ...'fystynna yn lent.' ....or in my case, 'hast moy, spedya le', if 
>>> you'll forgive the probably contorted Cornish!
>>>
>>> I think when one is learning a language largely on one's own the 
>>> temptation is to try to run before one can even toddle and let 
>>> enthusiasm outmatch proper attention to detail. And with Cornish  having 
>>> three to four versions, not counting the SWF/KS addition it  gets even 
>>> more complicated! However the main thing I think is to  master the main 
>>> outline of the syntax and a good basic vocabulary.
>>> Personally I find the best way to get to grips is to read a little  each 
>>> day, keep going over the grammar points and begin a daily,  very modest 
>>> diary entry to build some confident recall.
>>> Happily I'm beginning to get a feel for the mutations as well-  they're 
>>> definitely a shade more challenging than Scots Gaelic's  blessedly 
>>> single mutation and its splendid orthography system that  cleverly 
>>> enables one to know the unmutated root sound.
>>>
>>> I'm very fond of my Cornish Simplified and Cornish For Beginners. I  got 
>>> both years ago in James Thin in Edinburgh in anticipation of  doing the 
>>> Hons Cornish paper but sadly by the time I got to that  stage Donald 
>>> Howells had retired to Stornoway, I believe.He was a  very nice Welshman 
>>> and wore his learning in unassuming manner.  Bridger's Library- is that 
>>> the Library at the top of Morrab Road?
>>> One thing about Cornish- it obviously has a very rich theological 
>>> vocabulary, whether one includes the 'borrowings' or not. It is  great 
>>> to think the whole New Testament is now available in the UCR  and KK. 
>>> I'd love to see it in Late as well.
>>> I assume from what has been mentioned that The Gorsedd held fast to 
>>> Unified until the recent intoduction of the SWF and never adopted  KK 
>>> which rather surprised me, given support for KK from the Kesva.
>>>
>>> On a more narrowly focused Spellyans topic, may I point out that  the 
>>> 'wh' combination presents absolutely no problem to any Scotsman  as we 
>>> pronounce it just as it should be in Cornish- a voicless  aspirate ( not 
>>> the proper technical term which for the moment  escapes me!)  What do 
>>> others make of reversing the order of the  letters to 'hw'? Phonetically 
>>> does that not imply a different sound  of 'h' followed by 'w'? I can see 
>>> why it might seem more helpful to  those lacking the aspirate 'wh' in 
>>> English, but surely it is not  THAT difficult a sound to learn to 
>>> articulate?
>>>
>>> On the Prayer Book publications, etc I shall certainy seek them  out. 
>>> Are there ever any Cornish services held in non conformist  chapels or 
>>> churches? I have no problem with Low Anglican services  but in Cornwall 
>>> I think most are very Anglo-Catholic which I  couldn't really be doing 
>>> with. Sadly, I believe St Paul's in  Penzance is now closed. We used to 
>>> worship there and in the  beautifully maintained, very traditional 
>>> Baptist Church down the  road where Rev Hywel Roberts was minister.
>>>
>>> Anyway, must stop here.
>>>
>>> Ewan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken MacKinnon"  <ken at ferintosh.org>
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 6:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Ewan,
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for your reply.   I did not know Simpson but am very  long 
>>>> acquainted with Donald Meek who was at Edinburgh before  becoming Prof 
>>>> at Aberdeen - and then returned to Edinburgh as  research professor. 
>>>> We were close colleagues when I had an  honorary fellowship in Celtic 
>>>> at Edinburgh - and we were also  members ( he as chair) of MAGOG, and 
>>>> were both nvolved in drafting  ithe Meek Report.
>>>>
>>>> Lampeter has taught Cornish.  In fact some years ago I was part of  a 
>>>> HEFCW team which inspected Celtic Studies there - and amongst  other 
>>>> things I sat in on an actual Cornish class.
>>>>
>>>> I have over recent years been working my way up the Cornish exams  of 
>>>> the Language Board ( Kesva).   I have done these in Unified 
>>>> principally because that was the version I had most familiarity  with. 
>>>> I pourchased Caradar's Cornush Simplified ( first edition)  in 1949 ( 
>>>> at Bridger's Library in Penzance).  My studies of  Cornish have been 
>>>> very much a case of fystynna yn lent! - Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>>
>>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>>> and also at:-
>>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>>
>>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>>
>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>>> Scotland  UK
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ewan wilson" 
>>>> <butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
>>>> >
>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 11:49 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good Evening, Ken!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for filling me in on your teaching background.
>>>>> Did you ever know J M Y Simpson who used to run our late,  lamented 
>>>>> Linguistics Dept in Glasgow Uni? I think he ended up in  Aberdeen for 
>>>>> a time. He had a great interest in Gaelic and was an  SNP man, like 
>>>>> Prof Derek Thomson.( the demise of Gairm was such a  pity).
>>>>> I admit whilst I enjoyed the basic phonetics, the rarefied  theories 
>>>>> of phonemics, transformation-generative grammar and  stratificational 
>>>>> linguistics more bamboozled than enlightened me!  I still wonder if 
>>>>> anyone has actually ever fully analysed a  language in 
>>>>> Stratificational method.
>>>>> Donald Meek was also in Glasgow before he took over the Aberdeen 
>>>>> department.
>>>>> Which version of the Revived do you tend to favour?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ewan.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken MacKinnon" <ken at ferintosh.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 10:48 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A gowetha ker,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record there is a 'Book of Common Prayer' in Cornish.  I 
>>>>>> have a copy which carres the imprimatur of the Diocese of Truro  and 
>>>>>> the Bishop of Truro. Dated 1980.  A contact address is given:-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Secretary, Bishop's Advisory Council for Services in Cornish,
>>>>>> c / o The Diocesan Office, Convent of the Epiphany, Mitchell  Hill, 
>>>>>> Truro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give them a try - Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband  with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>>>>> and also at:-
>>>>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>>>> Ross-shire  IV 7 8HX
>>>>>> Scotland  UK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Everson" 
>>>>>> <everson at evertype.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:40 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 May 2010, at 23:10, ewan wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mention your work on lexical stuff and I wonder if that  means 
>>>>>>>> you are intending eventually to produce a new dictionary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been working on text concordances to verify spellings for 
>>>>>>> consistency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ask mainly because I'm thinking of investing in Nicholas'  most 
>>>>>>>> recent (UCR) dictionary to help me with his New Testament  which 
>>>>>>>> I'm also hoping to acquire. If the latter's going to end  up in SWF 
>>>>>>>> or KS then perhaps I should hold off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both are very valuable books and you can order them from Spyrys  a 
>>>>>>> Gernow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My own ultimate aim is to attempt a translation of the  Westminster 
>>>>>>>> Confession of Faith and Shorter Catechism into  Cornish. I've made 
>>>>>>>> a start to the Catechism but it's halting  work!! Is the Book of 
>>>>>>>> Common Prayer available in Cornish?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, but Andy Phillips' prayerbook is available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
> --
> Craig Weatherhill
>
>
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