[Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
rcr_young at yahoo.co.uk
Thu Jun 3 13:41:03 IST 2010
I've been following developments in the Cumbric Revival for some time, Craig. Best of luck to them indeed, considering they don't have a single surviving manuscript containing any more than a handful of words to work with (and nothing at all written by an actual Cumbric speaker). Beyond that all they have is a list of Anglo-Norse-whispered toponyms.
If they ever wish to connect with surviving literature by North Britons such as that of Aneurin or Taliesin, they'd need Middle Welsh anyway. They could also bear in mind that the kingdom of Gwynedd was founded by Britons from yr Hen Ogledd, led by Cunedda, who had to expell a large settlement of Gaels from Ynys Môn and the Llyn peninsula to reestablish a Brittonic kindom there. Gwynedd/Venedotian Welsh, due to the strength and influence of the Royal House of Gwynedd & Aberffraw remains to this day a remarkably distinctive dialect pocket surrounded by what Morris-Jones called Powysian (Ordovician) Welsh (which one might suppose to be the more native, North Cambrian Welsh beyond this Venedotian 'Old North' (Cumbrian) colony), so the Venedotian dialect (although it will have been tempered by the surrounding Ordovician Welsh for mutual intelligibility) may well have carried a legacy of that Hen Ogledd Welsh to survive securely into the
modern day - but Cumbrians would prefer to scramble in the ashes for something they can claim to be exclusively theirs, even if it's a complete fabrication.
Whenever I see efforts to cobble Cumbric together from the most meagre and intractable fragments, whether they're re-hashing a standardised Middle Welsh into an orthographic template fashioned by 'clues' from their toponyms or whatever, I can't help wondering why such an objection to simply learning Welsh (Venedotian Welsh in particular) looms so large up there. Especially when I wonder what the likelihood of them ever forming a linguistic community or even a Gorsedd movement of their own might be.
Has anyone taken a look at the Cumbric revival website? Very interesting. Best of luck to them.
On 3 Efn 2010, at 00:05, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
> Basically, Ewan - yes.
> On 2 Efn 2010, at 22:47, ewan wilson wrote:
>> As most self respecting Scots can pronounce 'wh' without conscious effort, I am intrigued to think it might be a difficult sound for English speakers in England 'Sassenachs'/Saxons, as we say. Is it really a problem that the 'hw' digraph solves?
>> Do I detect a drift that KK users are more stubborn in resisting SWF/KS whereas UC/UCR/LC are more amenable?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Chubb" <ray at spyrys.org>
>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 3:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Blejyow or Flowrys?
>>> Hi Ewan and welcome.
>>> On 1 Efn 2010, at 22:19, ewan wilson wrote:
>>>> On a more narrowly focused Spellyans topic, may I point out that the 'wh' combination presents absolutely no problem to any Scotsman as we pronounce it just as it should be in Cornish- a voicless aspirate ( not the proper technical term which for the moment escapes me!) What do others make of reversing the order of the letters to 'hw'? Phonetically does that not imply a different sound of 'h' followed by 'w'? I can see why it might seem more helpful to those lacking the aspirate 'wh' in English, but surely it is not THAT difficult a sound to learn to articulate?
>>> You are correct 'hw' does encourage a mispronunciation. A KK zealot and teacher of that system has admitted as much.
>>> Ray Chubb
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>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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> Craig Weatherhill
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