[Spellyans] UCR-Best orthography, richest vocabulary?

Ray Chubb ray at spyrys.org
Thu Jun 10 15:44:04 IST 2010

On 9 Efn 2010, at 20:36, ewan wilson wrote:

> Craig,
> It is heartening to see that the newest manuscript discovery seems  
> to have vindicated the main ideas of the 'Nancean' synthesists, if  
> one may so put it!
> It makes me doubt if learning the largely abandoned UCR is a waste  
> of time after all! UCR has the virtue of remaining very close to UC  
> so making its literary corpus quite accessible and also enriching  
> the vocabulary base, quite apart from evidently being an accurate  
> reflection of the traditional texts. And it seems to dovetail  
> reasonably easily with LC from what Craig says here.
> What do 'second generation' speakers think of UCR as opposed to UC?  
> I seem to remember the Chubb kids were raised with Cornish UC.

I still use only Cornish with my sons on a daily basis.  They're  not  
much for the reading and writing side of things but they have adopted  
forms like 'anedhans' in place of 'anedha' and can read UCR without  
any problems when they have to.

> Are they or any others like them still active speakers? Or is there  
> a phenomenon of second generation 'fall out'?

Yes, there does seem to be.  I suppose I was more of a disciplinarian  
than a lot of parents of my generation and this applied to the  
language.  I would use only Cornish and if they ever did try to use  
English with me, which I think was very rare, they would get very  
little response.  I remember talking to a reporter from one of the  
Sunday papers and he seemed to think it was cruel to make the boys  
tell me how much their pocket money was in Cornish before they could  
have it.  Apart from this we did and do have a lot of fun with and in  
the language.  I never pretend to know more than I actually do.

> I know Welsh and Gaelic kids who, for whatever reasons, have sadly  
> dropped the language once they reach adulthood.
> Finally, how healthy is LC? We hear little from its proponents-  
> apart from Jan!
> And what does 'pylarluth' mean, for goodness sake?! Can't find it in  
> any of my vocabularies, very frustrating!

The clue is in the story; it means 'Rag Lord'.

> Ewan.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org 
> >
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>> I should add that the discovery and examination of 'Bewnans Ke'   
>> underlined how good Nance (and Williams) were/are.  Nance had taken  
>> an  educated guess at certain words which weren't within the  
>> available  corpus and the occurrence of several of those words in  
>> BK proved him  right.  Also, the additional information contained  
>> in BK slotted into  UCR so well and so easily that it shows how  
>> very good that was, too.
>> Craig
>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 09:04, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>> That's a very valid point, Ray.  Everyone acknowledge that there   
>>> were inherent faults within UC (given the limited material Nance  
>>> had  to work with, that's hardly a surprise) which needed  
>>> attention.  UCR  addressed that problem, with subtle, gentle  
>>> adjustments that didn't  compromise the overall integrity of UC.   
>>> It is a shame that the SWF  process got in the way of its progress  
>>> because I was very happy with  UCR.  I was very comfortable with  
>>> it and, having been more used to  LC, that's quite a testament to  
>>> UCR.  I wrote the first edition of  "Cornish Place-Names and  
>>> Language" in RLC, but rewrote the second  edition in UCR (cheekily  
>>> referring to it as "standard Cornish", as a  kick-back against the  
>>> claims being made by the Kesva).  I found the  adjustment very easy.
>>> Craig
>>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 08:17, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>>> On 8 Efn 2010, at 22:30, Christian Semmens wrote:
>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I like UC, I like its aesthetic, I also   
>>>>> appreciate the warm place it has in many hearts, but its days  
>>>>> are  passed as the primary vehicle for written Cornish. It  
>>>>> served its  purpose fairly well, but its downfall came with the  
>>>>> rigidity of  those who failed to adapt when its inadequacies  
>>>>> became too much  for many to bear. It had a brief chance in the  
>>>>> 90s with UCR, but  again the chance was lost with the failure to  
>>>>> adapt, with users  sticking doggedly to the original ossified  
>>>>> form.
>>>> Much of the reason for this was the fact that the Cornish  
>>>> Language Board would not allow their exams to be taken in UCR.   
>>>> If the  Language Board feared UCR so much that tells us that it  
>>>> has got  something worth hanging on to.
>>>> Ray Chubb
>>>> Portreth
>>>> Kernow
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>>> --
>>> Craig Weatherhill
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>> --
>> Craig Weatherhill
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Ray Chubb


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