[Spellyans] Does 'D' and 'T' sometimes mutate to ''N'?

ewan wilson butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
Mon Jun 14 13:41:09 IST 2010


Thanks, Ray, for very interesting insight into how passing the language on 
should be done!
On a narrower Spellyans issue:-
In some passages I've been coming across words like 'dor' mutated( I 
presume) to 'nor' and 'tavas' to 'navas'. Is this a regualr feature of such 
plosives? If so, how come it's not been mentioned in the official Mutations 
tables?

Ewan.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Chubb" <ray at spyrys.org>
To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] UCR-Best orthography, richest vocabulary?


>
> On 9 Efn 2010, at 20:36, ewan wilson wrote:
>
>> Craig,
>>
>> It is heartening to see that the newest manuscript discovery seems  to 
>> have vindicated the main ideas of the 'Nancean' synthesists, if  one may 
>> so put it!
>> It makes me doubt if learning the largely abandoned UCR is a waste  of 
>> time after all! UCR has the virtue of remaining very close to UC  so 
>> making its literary corpus quite accessible and also enriching  the 
>> vocabulary base, quite apart from evidently being an accurate  reflection 
>> of the traditional texts. And it seems to dovetail  reasonably easily 
>> with LC from what Craig says here.
>> What do 'second generation' speakers think of UCR as opposed to UC?  I 
>> seem to remember the Chubb kids were raised with Cornish UC.
>
> I still use only Cornish with my sons on a daily basis.  They're  not 
> much for the reading and writing side of things but they have adopted 
> forms like 'anedhans' in place of 'anedha' and can read UCR without  any 
> problems when they have to.
>
>> Are they or any others like them still active speakers? Or is there  a 
>> phenomenon of second generation 'fall out'?
>
> Yes, there does seem to be.  I suppose I was more of a disciplinarian 
> than a lot of parents of my generation and this applied to the  language. 
> I would use only Cornish and if they ever did try to use  English with me, 
> which I think was very rare, they would get very  little response.  I 
> remember talking to a reporter from one of the  Sunday papers and he 
> seemed to think it was cruel to make the boys  tell me how much their 
> pocket money was in Cornish before they could  have it.  Apart from this 
> we did and do have a lot of fun with and in  the language.  I never 
> pretend to know more than I actually do.
>
>> I know Welsh and Gaelic kids who, for whatever reasons, have sadly 
>> dropped the language once they reach adulthood.
>> Finally, how healthy is LC? We hear little from its proponents-  apart 
>> from Jan!
>> And what does 'pylarluth' mean, for goodness sake?! Can't find it in  any 
>> of my vocabularies, very frustrating!
>
> The clue is in the story; it means 'Rag Lord'.
>
>>
>> Ewan.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" 
>> <craig at agantavas.org
>> >
>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>>
>>
>>> I should add that the discovery and examination of 'Bewnans Ke' 
>>> underlined how good Nance (and Williams) were/are.  Nance had taken  an 
>>> educated guess at certain words which weren't within the  available 
>>> corpus and the occurrence of several of those words in  BK proved him 
>>> right.  Also, the additional information contained  in BK slotted into 
>>> UCR so well and so easily that it shows how  very good that was, too.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 09:04, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's a very valid point, Ray.  Everyone acknowledge that there   were 
>>>> inherent faults within UC (given the limited material Nance  had  to 
>>>> work with, that's hardly a surprise) which needed  attention.  UCR 
>>>> addressed that problem, with subtle, gentle  adjustments that didn't 
>>>> compromise the overall integrity of UC.   It is a shame that the SWF 
>>>> process got in the way of its progress  because I was very happy with 
>>>> UCR.  I was very comfortable with  it and, having been more used to 
>>>> LC, that's quite a testament to  UCR.  I wrote the first edition of 
>>>> "Cornish Place-Names and  Language" in RLC, but rewrote the second 
>>>> edition in UCR (cheekily  referring to it as "standard Cornish", as a 
>>>> kick-back against the  claims being made by the Kesva).  I found the 
>>>> adjustment very easy.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 08:17, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 Efn 2010, at 22:30, Christian Semmens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I like UC, I like its aesthetic, I also 
>>>>>> appreciate the warm place it has in many hearts, but its days  are 
>>>>>> passed as the primary vehicle for written Cornish. It  served its 
>>>>>> purpose fairly well, but its downfall came with the  rigidity of 
>>>>>> those who failed to adapt when its inadequacies  became too much  for 
>>>>>> many to bear. It had a brief chance in the  90s with UCR, but  again 
>>>>>> the chance was lost with the failure to  adapt, with users  sticking 
>>>>>> doggedly to the original ossified  form.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much of the reason for this was the fact that the Cornish  Language 
>>>>> Board would not allow their exams to be taken in UCR.   If the 
>>>>> Language Board feared UCR so much that tells us that it  has got 
>>>>> something worth hanging on to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray Chubb
>>>>>
>>>>> Portreth
>>>>> Kernow
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>
>>> --
>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> Ray Chubb
>
> Portreth
> Kernow
>
>
>
>
>
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> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net 





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