[Spellyans] Does 'D' and 'T' sometimes mutate to ''N'?

Ray Chubb ray at spyrys.org
Tue Jun 15 08:13:38 IST 2010


On 14 Efn 2010, at 13:41, ewan wilson wrote:

> Thanks, Ray, for very interesting insight into how passing the  
> language on should be done!
> On a narrower Spellyans issue:-
> In some passages I've been coming across words like 'dor' mutated( I  
> presume) to 'nor' and 'tavas' to 'navas'. Is this a regualr feature  
> of such plosives? If so, how come it's not been mentioned in the  
> official Mutations tables?

This is not a regular feature it affects only certain words starting  
with letter 'd'.  I expect it is a throw back to early Cornish.

>
> Ewan.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Chubb" <ray at spyrys.org>
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] UCR-Best orthography, richest vocabulary?
>
>
>>
>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 20:36, ewan wilson wrote:
>>
>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> It is heartening to see that the newest manuscript discovery  
>>> seems  to have vindicated the main ideas of the 'Nancean'  
>>> synthesists, if  one may so put it!
>>> It makes me doubt if learning the largely abandoned UCR is a  
>>> waste  of time after all! UCR has the virtue of remaining very  
>>> close to UC  so making its literary corpus quite accessible and  
>>> also enriching  the vocabulary base, quite apart from evidently  
>>> being an accurate  reflection of the traditional texts. And it  
>>> seems to dovetail  reasonably easily with LC from what Craig says  
>>> here.
>>> What do 'second generation' speakers think of UCR as opposed to  
>>> UC?  I seem to remember the Chubb kids were raised with Cornish UC.
>>
>> I still use only Cornish with my sons on a daily basis.  They're   
>> not much for the reading and writing side of things but they have  
>> adopted forms like 'anedhans' in place of 'anedha' and can read UCR  
>> without  any problems when they have to.
>>
>>> Are they or any others like them still active speakers? Or is  
>>> there  a phenomenon of second generation 'fall out'?
>>
>> Yes, there does seem to be.  I suppose I was more of a  
>> disciplinarian than a lot of parents of my generation and this  
>> applied to the  language. I would use only Cornish and if they ever  
>> did try to use  English with me, which I think was very rare, they  
>> would get very  little response.  I remember talking to a reporter  
>> from one of the  Sunday papers and he seemed to think it was cruel  
>> to make the boys  tell me how much their pocket money was in  
>> Cornish before they could  have it.  Apart from this we did and do  
>> have a lot of fun with and in  the language.  I never pretend to  
>> know more than I actually do.
>>
>>> I know Welsh and Gaelic kids who, for whatever reasons, have sadly  
>>> dropped the language once they reach adulthood.
>>> Finally, how healthy is LC? We hear little from its proponents-   
>>> apart from Jan!
>>> And what does 'pylarluth' mean, for goodness sake?! Can't find it  
>>> in  any of my vocabularies, very frustrating!
>>
>> The clue is in the story; it means 'Rag Lord'.
>>
>>>
>>> Ewan.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
>>> >
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] An SWF glossary & Unified versus SWF
>>>
>>>
>>>> I should add that the discovery and examination of 'Bewnans Ke'  
>>>> underlined how good Nance (and Williams) were/are.  Nance had  
>>>> taken  an educated guess at certain words which weren't within  
>>>> the  available corpus and the occurrence of several of those  
>>>> words in  BK proved him right.  Also, the additional information  
>>>> contained  in BK slotted into UCR so well and so easily that it  
>>>> shows how  very good that was, too.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 09:04, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's a very valid point, Ray.  Everyone acknowledge that  
>>>>> there   were inherent faults within UC (given the limited  
>>>>> material Nance  had  to work with, that's hardly a surprise)  
>>>>> which needed  attention.  UCR addressed that problem, with  
>>>>> subtle, gentle  adjustments that didn't compromise the overall  
>>>>> integrity of UC.   It is a shame that the SWF process got in the  
>>>>> way of its progress  because I was very happy with UCR.  I was  
>>>>> very comfortable with  it and, having been more used to LC,  
>>>>> that's quite a testament to  UCR.  I wrote the first edition of  
>>>>> "Cornish Place-Names and  Language" in RLC, but rewrote the  
>>>>> second edition in UCR (cheekily  referring to it as "standard  
>>>>> Cornish", as a kick-back against the  claims being made by the  
>>>>> Kesva).  I found the adjustment very easy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Efn 2010, at 08:17, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 Efn 2010, at 22:30, Christian Semmens wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I like UC, I like its aesthetic, I also  
>>>>>>> appreciate the warm place it has in many hearts, but its days   
>>>>>>> are passed as the primary vehicle for written Cornish. It   
>>>>>>> served its purpose fairly well, but its downfall came with  
>>>>>>> the  rigidity of those who failed to adapt when its  
>>>>>>> inadequacies  became too much  for many to bear. It had a  
>>>>>>> brief chance in the  90s with UCR, but  again the chance was  
>>>>>>> lost with the failure to  adapt, with users  sticking doggedly  
>>>>>>> to the original ossified  form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much of the reason for this was the fact that the Cornish   
>>>>>> Language Board would not allow their exams to be taken in  
>>>>>> UCR.   If the Language Board feared UCR so much that tells us  
>>>>>> that it  has got something worth hanging on to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray Chubb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Portreth
>>>>>> Kernow
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> Ray Chubb
>>
>> Portreth
>> Kernow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Ray Chubb

Portreth
Kernow








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