[Spellyans] telling the time

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Tue Mar 2 15:55:57 GMT 2010


Some revivalists use; seyth eur war'n clock (seven hours on the  
clock).  Is Lhuyd's kloh, 'clock' or 'bell'?

Craig


On 2 Mer 2010, at 15:45, j.mills at email.com wrote:

> DD stands for derived.
> argloh: [«ř˙gl¥h] DD < ar, cloh, ~ ô’r gloch W, ad. O’clock
> In other words argloh is derived from ar, cloh.
> Jon
>
> _____________________________________
> Dr. Jon Mills,
> School of European Culture and Languages,
> University of Kent
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
> To: 'Standard Cornish discussion list' <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] telling the time
>
> Maybe ar in arglôh is the rare preposition er “for, by”. Gendall  
> gives arglôh as attested by “DD” as ar, cloh, but he doesn’t  
> say who or what is referred to by “DD”.
> Dan
>
> From: j.mills at email.com
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 6:25 PM
>
> It is the word klôh that is attested in Lhuyd's Archaeologia. Ar  
> glôh is unattested.
> Jon
> _____________________________________
> Dr. Jon Mills,
> School of European Culture and Languages,
> University of Kent
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 11:31 am
> Subject: [Spellyans] telling the time
> In his gerlevran Neil says Lhuyd uses ar glôh for o'clock but adds  
> ear (ur) is usual in UC.
> This latter remark is certainly true. In Cornish Simplified Caradar  
> has:
>
> pyth yu an ur? un ur yu.
>
> And in his afterword to Trystan hag Ysolt Talek writes:
>
> Wosa cona y whrussa sevel orth mos dhe'n gwely bys yn un ur vyttyn.
>
> I can find no example of clock time in traditional Cornish. Nor can  
> I find Lhuyd's ar glôh.
>
> We can avoid the use of any word for 'hour' in expressions like  
> hanter wosa seyth 'half past seven', qwarter dhe naw 'quarter to  
> nine', ugans mynysen wosa dew 'twenty minutes past two' (though  
> mynysen is unattested in traditional Cornish). This seems to have  
> been Caradar's practice when possible. In a letter dated 4th  
> September 1939 he writes:
>
> An bresel a dhallathas dhe unnek ur De Sul vyttyn. Dhe gwarter wosa  
> unnek y teth gwarnyans bos an escar owth omsettya warnan!
>
> In PC the ascended Christ says:
>
> rag dry adam a yfarn me a thuk curyn a spern nep try our adro thu'm  
> pen ' To bring Adam from hell I bore a crown of thorns some three  
> hours around my head' PC 2553-55.
>
> And in CW Noah says:
>
> vnpossyble nyngew tra tha wrear all an bys ma awos destrowy an beyse  
> agy tha ower 'Nothing is impossible to the Creator of all this world  
> on account of destroying the world within an hour' CW 2386-39
>
> Is the use of eur/ur justified in clock time, given that ur/eur  
> means 'time' rather than 'hour?' Indeed ur (vr, eare) is used almost  
> exclusively in the expressions pub ur 'always' andyn ur na  
> 'then' (later nena). Py ur 'when?' is attested twice. In all cases  
> the sense of ur (vr, eare) is 'time, occasion, moment' rather than  
> 'hour'. In telling the time, however, we need a word that means  
> 'hour'. That would seem to suggest our, owre rather than ur, vr, eare.
>
>  If we want to say 'six o'clock, seven o'clock' should we not use  
> our 'hour' rather than eur 'time' or imitate Lhuyd's ar glôh (if  
> indeed he cites such a form):
>
> whegh our, seyth our or possibly whegh ar glogh, seyth ar glogh ?
>
> Nicholas
>
>
>
>
> =
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--
Craig Weatherhill





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