[Spellyans] Notednow ow tochya Skeul an Tavas

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Wed Nov 17 11:39:38 GMT 2010


-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Williams
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:22 PM
"Now you are being patronising, Dan. "Our well liked and formulated rule" is disparaging language. It's not "our" rule; it's the evidence of the texts.“

 

Sorry, I didn’t mean it that way, but maybe a little cynicism crept through. I do apologise. Concerning the evidence in the texts – it s very poor where showing the distinction between [ð] and [θ] is concerned. 

 

“And even if with the evidence available we couldn't rule out final unstressed -edh, -ydh, why does the SWF allow nowyth with -th but -dh in all other instances?”

 

This was a compromise decision when final devoicing was discussed in the Ad-Hoc-group and Lhuyd’s forms were taken as evidence and since Lhuyd has <noueth> in his transcription of JCH final devoicing was conceded in this instance alone. Why the other forms of <nowydh> that Lhuyd cites weren’t considered (<neụedh>, <nowydh>, <neụydh>) I don’t know. You are right that this is an inconsistency and a mistake in the SWF. I would recommend SWF <nowydh>.

 

“There is by the way much evidence that -eth was indeed voiceless and Michael and I will present it in due course.

Nicholas"

 

Fine, I shall look forward to Michael’s presentation. 

Dan

 

On 11/16/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:

> My point being, that we cannot rule out with the evidence available that

> there was [ð] in final unstressed syllables word-finally. We should not

> dismiss examples of word-final <dh> just because it doesn’t fit our well

> liked and formulated rule that all consonants are devoiced in this position,

> if there is evidence to the contrary. That would border on being dogmatic

> about the issue. For the sake of compromise writing <dh> in these positions

> in RC is no real problem, since we can formulate rules that allow us to

> pronounce <dh> [θ].

> 

> Dan

> 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Nicholas Williams

> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:48 AM

> 

> 

> 

> “But Lhuyd also has instances of 'truth' with final -eth. Lhuyd writes -edh

> for plurals on occasion but admits he heard -es.

> 

> Nicholas”

> 

> 

> 

> On 11/14/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:

> 

>> Yes, I know. I recommended <gordhuher> for the SWF, but was outvoted

>> because

> 

>> of the brief to start with KK, and the UC form and for reasons of

> 

>> continuity.

> 

>> 

> 

>> Dan

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>>   _____

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>> 

> 

>> From: nicholas williams

> 

>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:37 PM

> 

>> 

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>> The SWF writes <gorthuher> with voiceless <th> but Lhuyd writes this word:

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>> gydhihuar AB: 52b

> 

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>> gydhihuar AB: 65b

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>> gydhihuar AB: 172c

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>> 

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>> gydhihuar AB: 244c

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>> 

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>> godhihuar AB: 249a

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>> i.e. in all cases with a voiced <dh>. The SWF ought to write <gordhuher>.

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>> On 2010 Du 14, at 13:48, Daniel Prohaska wrote:

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>> Lowena dhe whei oll,

> 

>> Otta'n second radn a'm notednow adro dhe'n corslever "Skeul an Tavas".

>> Aban

> 

>> na wora'ma convedhes an gorholedhow adheskoniethel, na venje'vy campolla

>> udn

> 

>> ger orth an peth ujy etto, saw letherenansow SWF. Ma govenek dhebm del

>> vedh

> 

>> usadow dhe whei an notednow ma.

> 

>> Dan

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> 

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> 

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> 

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> 

> 

 

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