[Spellyans] gwiryoneth

Nicholas Williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Wed Nov 17 13:15:28 GMT 2010


Lhuyd writes guironeth twice. Guironeth cannot be ascribed to
contamination with Welsh. So guironeth is more likely to be genuine
than a form in -edh. The final segment was voiceless.

On 11/17/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:
> Nicholas,
>
> You’re right, <gwreanathe> could have meant [θ] in the final syllable, but
> since we have Lhuyd’s <guirionedh> it could just as well have meant [ð] –
> the point being – we don’t know, and will probably never know for sure. So,
> all we have is differing “beliefs” and “likelihoods” of what it may have
> been. The sounds [ð] and [θ] are so rarely distinguished in the texts that I
> find that Lhuyd’s form must be significant in some way. Faced with the
> problem of difficult documentation regarding the distinctiveness of the
> sound, I don’t find an etymological approach all that bad.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Williams
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:51 AM
>
>
>
> "Dan wrote about -edh, etc.:
>
>
>
> "It is attested, after all, by Lhuyd and interestingly enough CW has
> gwreanathe occurring before a vowel which leads me to suspect that there may
> have been final devoicing in absolute auslaut and before other voiceless
> consonants, but [ð] before vowels."
>
>
>
> The spelling gwreanathe 'truth' in CW does not to me suggest a finall voiced
> consonant. In CW spellings in <Vthe> frequently occur where there is no
> question of voicing. Look at the following examples:
>
>
>
> totheta ‘good speed’ CW 564
>
> mara tethe  ‘if he came’ (final -e not a suffixed pronoun) CW 565
>
> cothe gyllys ‘become old’ CW 1791
>
> forsothe ‘forsooth’ CW 1890
>
> me athe chardg ‘I charge thee’ CW 375
>
> cathe ‘cat’ CW 407
>
> me athe pys ‘I beg thee’ CW 559
>
> thathe negys to thy business’  CW 570
>
> hyrathe ‘longing’ CW  590 (cf. Welsh hiraeth)
>
> me athe pyese CW 617
>
> athe cossyllyas ‘advised thee’ CW 771
>
> athe wullowys ‘from thy light’ CW 936
>
> Deathe ‘death’ CW  1006
>
> bythqwathe ‘ever’ CW 1265
>
> bram an gathe CW 1305
>
> molathe en tase ‘the curse of the Father’ CW 1505
>
> dallathe ‘begin’ CW 2281
>
> cathe ‘cat’ (rhyming with whath ‘yet’) CW 2301
>
> me athe pyes ‘I beg thee’ CW 2332
>
> pew athe wrug ‘who made thee?’ CW 2346
>
> bram an gathe ‘the cat’s fart’ CW 2378
>
> whathe ‘still, yet’ CW 2379
>
> hathe flehys ‘and thy children’ CW 2376
>
> vij gwythe ‘seven times’  CW 1536
>
> seythe ‘Seth’ stage direction 1758
>
> SEYTHE ‘Seth’ heading CW 2078
>
> pesqwythe ‘as often’ CW 2502
>
>
>
> Gwreanathe at CW 1892 (there is one example only) can perfectly well
> represent [gwri at n@T]
>
> Nicholas"
>
>
>
>




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