[Spellyans] Notednow ow tochya Skeul an Tavas

Nicholas Williams njawilliams at gmail.com
Wed Nov 17 13:37:23 GMT 2010


We can I believe state the following:

If Lhuyd has unstressed -eth and -edh in the same word, given that
-edh is likely to have been suggested by his native language, -eth is
to be taken as genuine Cornish. That means guironeth and noweth are
both genuine.

The same kind of thing is true with final -ev. Genev is unattested in
Cornish outside Lhuyd. Whereas geneff is common. Genev comes from a
false division of gene vi and is also due to contamination with Welsh.

Genaffa 'with me' at CW 271 is impossible to explain on the basis of
genev but fits in nicely with genef.

Nicholas

On 11/17/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Williams
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:22 PM
> "Now you are being patronising, Dan. "Our well liked and formulated rule" is
> disparaging language. It's not "our" rule; it's the evidence of the texts.“
>
>
>
> Sorry, I didn’t mean it that way, but maybe a little cynicism crept through.
> I do apologise. Concerning the evidence in the texts – it s very poor where
> showing the distinction between [ð] and [θ] is concerned.
>
>
>
> “And even if with the evidence available we couldn't rule out final
> unstressed -edh, -ydh, why does the SWF allow nowyth with -th but -dh in all
> other instances?”
>
>
>
> This was a compromise decision when final devoicing was discussed in the
> Ad-Hoc-group and Lhuyd’s forms were taken as evidence and since Lhuyd has
> <noueth> in his transcription of JCH final devoicing was conceded in this
> instance alone. Why the other forms of <nowydh> that Lhuyd cites weren’t
> considered (<neụedh>, <nowydh>, <neụydh>) I don’t know. You are right that
> this is an inconsistency and a mistake in the SWF. I would recommend SWF
> <nowydh>.
>
>
>
> “There is by the way much evidence that -eth was indeed voiceless and
> Michael and I will present it in due course.
>
> Nicholas"
>
>
>
> Fine, I shall look forward to Michael’s presentation.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On 11/16/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:
>
>> My point being, that we cannot rule out with the evidence available that
>
>> there was [ð] in final unstressed syllables word-finally. We should not
>
>> dismiss examples of word-final <dh> just because it doesn’t fit our well
>
>> liked and formulated rule that all consonants are devoiced in this
>> position,
>
>> if there is evidence to the contrary. That would border on being dogmatic
>
>> about the issue. For the sake of compromise writing <dh> in these
>> positions
>
>> in RC is no real problem, since we can formulate rules that allow us to
>
>> pronounce <dh> [θ].
>
>>
>
>> Dan
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Nicholas Williams
>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:48 AM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> “But Lhuyd also has instances of 'truth' with final -eth. Lhuyd writes
>> -edh
>
>> for plurals on occasion but admits he heard -es.
>
>>
>
>> Nicholas”
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On 11/14/10, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>> Yes, I know. I recommended <gordhuher> for the SWF, but was outvoted
>
>>> because
>
>>
>
>>> of the brief to start with KK, and the UC form and for reasons of
>
>>
>
>>> continuity.
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>>>
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>>
>
>>> Dan
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>   _____
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>>>
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>>
>
>>> From: nicholas williams
>
>>
>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 4:37 PM
>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> The SWF writes <gorthuher> with voiceless <th> but Lhuyd writes this
>>> word:
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> gydhihuar AB: 52b
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>>>
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>>> gydhihuar AB: 65b
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>>>
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>>> gydhihuar AB: 172c
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>>>
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>>> gydhihuar AB: 244c
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>>>
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>>> godhihuar AB: 249a
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>>>
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>>> i.e. in all cases with a voiced <dh>. The SWF ought to write <gordhuher>.
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>>> On 2010 Du 14, at 13:48, Daniel Prohaska wrote:
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>>> Lowena dhe whei oll,
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>>> Otta'n second radn a'm notednow adro dhe'n corslever "Skeul an Tavas".
>
>>> Aban
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>>
>
>>> na wora'ma convedhes an gorholedhow adheskoniethel, na venje'vy campolla
>
>>> udn
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>>> ger orth an peth ujy etto, saw letherenansow SWF. Ma govenek dhebm del
>
>>> vedh
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>>> usadow dhe whei an notednow ma.
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>>> Dan
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>> _______________________________________________
>
>>
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>
>>
>
>
>
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