[Spellyans] gwiryoneth

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Fri Nov 19 14:33:51 GMT 2010

-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Cook
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:20 AM


“On 18 November 2010 02:55, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:


>> “Our theory fits the evidence better than the theory that -eð and -ev were

>> operative and that somehow the -eθ in guironeth and other words... erm....

>> Well, no, I don't think I've heard an explanation.”


> That doesn’t make Lhuyds records of Cornish-while-it-was-still-spoken that

> have <dh> in this position go away. This question, in all fairness, cannot

> be answered. And insisting on orthographic reflection of a theory is an

> attempt at making this theory de facto true, while it simply remains a

> possibility – nothing more.


There actually was an alternative theory bruited about -- the in pausa line suggested, as I think Dan said, by Jon. I have to say I'm finding both theories problematic, as there are going to be unexplained edge cases either way (we have to either force pauses into the sentence every time there's a <th>, or imagine Lhuyd suddenly forgot that he was recording Cornish rather than Welsh every time there's a <dh>). 

Unconvinced as I am either way, I would certainly prefer to default to the MSS and use <th>.”


But in essence, that means we would have to change every <dh> to <th> to default to the MSS. We wouldn’t be distinguishing [ð] from [θ] anymore.


“But Dan's right that writing <dh> gives partisans of both [ð] and [θ] the chance to pronounce it their way as they wish. And here the difference in the briefs of KS and the SWF is apparent: by their own standards, <th> is absolutely right for KS, <dh> for the SWF.”


Final unstressed <dh> was decided by the Ad-Hoc group. If this isn’t changed in 2013, this is what we will have. 


“On a not totally unrelated note, I would really like to see a return to the use of final <f> for /v/, final <ff> for /f/, which I thought was one of the most elegant features of an earlier incarnation of KS.



Yes, me, too. I would suggest that <v> means [v] only, <f> is an umbrella graph for [f] and [v] and <ff> means [f] only.


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