[Spellyans] th/dh

j.mills at email.com j.mills at email.com
Mon Nov 22 13:01:33 GMT 2010


Are we to distinguish between [θ] and [ð] by analogy with other Celtic languages then? Why not mention the Breton which Lhuyd records as "Pemdhek" and the Catholicon records as "pempzec".
Ol an gwella
Jon


_____________________________________ 
Dr. Jon Mills, 
School of European Culture and Languages, 
University of Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 22, 2010 9:03 am
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] th/dh


In Welsh the form is pymtheg with a voiceless medial th. When the group mth is dissimilated to th in the word pythefnos 'fortnight' the th (rather than dd) is even more apparent.
Pythefnos is etymologically identical with Irish coicís 'fortnight', earlier coicthis, with a voiceless internal group. The simplex is OIr cóic 'five', Modern Irish cúig where the final is voiced.
So both Goedelic and Brythonic have a voiced final and and a voiceless internal group in a derivative of 'fifteen'
Why then should Cornish have pymdhek?
Pryce writes pemdhak in imitation of Lhuyd, because much of his Arch. Cornu-Brit. was plagiarised from AB.
But Jenner in his collection of numerals from Mount's Bay 1875 (See Michael's edition of Jenner page 242) gives pempthak 'fifteen' from the Kelynacks and pemthack from Mrs Soady.
Since Jenner in these lists writes daudhak 'twelve', and bizwaudhak 'fourteen' for example, I think we can be reasonably certain that Lhuyd's pemdhak is indeed mistaken. The evidence from Mount's Bay indicates that traditional spoken Cornish had th in the word pymthek, not dh.
To suggest that Lhuyd's pemdhak is correct looks to me like special pleading.


Nicholas


On 2010 Du 22, at 02:53, Owen Cook wrote:


 How do you know that 15 was [pemθək] and not [pemðək]?



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