[Spellyans] convedhes 'to understand'

Ray Chubb ray at spyrys.org
Wed Aug 24 17:46:35 IST 2011


As I understand it 'comprehendya' has a different meaning in Cornish,  
it means 'to include'.

On 24 Est 2011, at 12:03, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

> According to Dick Gendall, convedhes meant to know, i.e. understand  
> or comprehend (and there is comprehendya, too), so "I know Cornish,  
> I understand Cornish".
>
> aswon meant to know, i.e. to recognise ("Lloyd George knew my  
> father").
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> On 24 Est 2011, at 11:36, Jed Matthews wrote:
>
>> Words changed their meaning over time in English, surely this must  
>> have happened in Cornish too.
>>
>> Jed
>>
>>
>> On 23 August 2011 12:33, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:
>> Here are my suggestions, in my own orthography:
>>
>> 1)        I appreciate your coming all this way.
>> j.         My yv ſynſys ȝe'th tos an forth ·ma oll.
>>
>> 2)       We appreciate that this is very difficult for you.
>> ij.        Ni yv ovth eſtimya tel üs gans henna angus brâs ȝys.
>>
>> 3)        The sum in the bank has appreciated nicely.
>> iij.        An ſömmen in banc re-encreſſys da.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andrew J. Trim
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ewan wilson
>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:08 PM
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] convedhes 'to understand'
>>
>> Nicholas,
>>
>> Mention of this verb makes me wonder how one would translate the  
>> English verb 'appreciate' in its various shades of meaning as in  
>> the contexts below:-
>> 1) I appreciate your coming all this way.
>> 2)We appreciate that this is very difficult for you.
>> 3) The sum in the bank has appreciated nicely.
>>
>> Ewan.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: nicholas williams
>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 2:36 PM
>> Subject: [Spellyans] convedhes 'to understand'
>>
>> Some revivalists dislike the word ùnderstondya for ‘to  
>> understand’ and prefer convedhes. Convedhes, however, is a Late  
>> Cornish word only and it really means ‘perceive, see, grasp’ as  
>> much as ‘understand’. Here are all the examples I can find:
>>
>> sera ny won convethas ‘sir, I do not understand’ CW 1232
>> me ny allaf convethas y bosta ge ow hendas ‘I cannot understand  
>> that you are my grandfather’ CW 1610
>> gans dean penvo convethys worthaf ve sertan ny dale bos mellyes a  
>> vgh neb tra ‘when it is perceived by somebody, it will not be  
>> worth messing with me indeed above all things’ 1620
>> henna yth ew convethys der an discans es thymma reis gans an tas es  
>> a vghan ‘that can be understood by the teaching given to me by the  
>> Father above’ CW 2153-55
>> Der taklow minniz ew brez teez gonvethes ‘By little things is the  
>> mind of people perceived’ ACB E e 4v.
>>
>> Lhuyd does not seem to know this word, and s.v. Intelligo ‘to  
>> perceive or understand’ he gives the Cornish word adzhan (i.e.  
>> aswon) AB: 72a.
>>
>> We now have two examples of convedhes in its Middle Cornish form:
>>
>> Ema Arthur devethys ha ny gansa canfethys ‘Arthur has come, and we  
>> perceived by him’ BK 2794-95
>> Rag kueth, pan i’n canfethis, me re jangyas ow holor ‘For grief,  
>> when I noticed it, I changed my colour’ BK  3129-30.
>>
>> The verbal noun of this verb is unattested but it would probably  
>> have been *canfos or *canvos, cf. Welsh canfod ‘to perceive, to  
>> behold, to see’. Cornish *canfos, Welsh canfod are related to Old  
>> Irish cétbuid ‘act of seeing, sense’, Modern Irish céadfa  
>> ‘sense’, and are compounds of *cant- ‘with’, cf. Cornish  
>> gans ‘with’, and the verbal noun bos, bod ‘to be’. Canfos  
>> can therefore be set alongside the other compounds of bos ‘to  
>> be’ in Cornish, gothfos ‘to know’, wharfos ‘to happen’,   
>> and *darfos ‘to happen’.
>>
>> The present future of *canfos would have been *canfethaf,  
>> *canfethyth, *canfyth and the verbal adjective was canfethys (see  
>> the first example from BK above). From this inflected stem canfeth-  
>> was extracted a new verbal noun *canfethes, which appears in CW and  
>> Pryce as convethes. The unstressed a in canfethes has been rounded  
>> by the following f/v. Notice also that Pryce’s form gonvethes  
>> seems to have acquired permanent initial lenition.
>>
>> Since convedhes really means ‘to perceive, see’ rather than  
>> simply ‘to understand’, I shall continue to use ùnderstondya  
>> with a clear conscience.
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
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>
> --
> Craig Weatherhill
>
>
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Ray Chubb

Portreth
Kernow


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