[Spellyans] Diacritics and their necessity
craig at agantavas.org
Tue Feb 1 20:11:17 GMT 2011
I didn't add that KS is certainly the best available orthography for
Cornish. I did (and do) prefer KS1 as it was unfettered by the
demands of the SWF.
On 1 Whe 2011, at 20:06, Michael Everson wrote:
> On 1 Feb 2011, at 19:06, Eddie Climo wrote:
>> No, Michael. You may have proposed those things in 2008, but they
>> were never ratified by the membership of Spellyans.
> Spellyans no process for "ratification" and we never did in
> UdnFormScrefys either. What we have is a sense of general consensus
> of linguists and non-linguists, and decisions taken by the editors.
> The editors have had a mandate an the confidence of both
> UdnFormScrefys and Spellyans because of the care and expertise they
> have taken with this material.
> I hear several people whose knowledge of linguistics and in
> particular phonology I respect saying that they are satisfied with
> KS, warts and all. It may not be perfect, but it is the best
> orthography yet designed for Cornish, as several people have said
> Your proposals aim to make it an unstable and therefore inferior
> orthography. Your proposal will not be accepted, because they go
> against the entire effort we have been engaging in since 2006. I am
> sorry if this grieves you, but you are not making any kind of case
> that would lead.
>> Until that process has been undertaken by a vote taken after full
>> discussion, there is no KS; there is only a proposal for what you
>> think KS ought to be.
> Alys in Pow an Anethow, Adro dhe'n Bÿs in Peswar Ugans Dëdh, Kensa
> Lyver Redya, Jowal Lethesow, Skeul an Tavas, Devocyon an Greryow,
> and Enys Tresour ALL of them use the same orthography. This is an
> implemented orthography. It is not a "proposal". It has not been a
> "proposal" since Alys was published in January 2009 -- six months
> after your proposal to make diacritical marks "optional" failed to
> attract consensus.
> If Nicholas or Jon or Christian or Neil or Dan or Owen or I had
> thought that it was a good idea to have an orthography where the
> rules of spelling could be ignored in "ordinary published material
> for the more fluent user of Cornish" (as you said in July 2008) then
> that idea would have had support 2008.
> But wasn't a good idea. Indeed it is an unprecedented idea, to have
> an orthography with such options in it. No other Celtic language has
> such rules. No Germanic language has such rules. No Romance or
> Slavic language has such rules. And your assertion that "Cornish is
> different" does not convince me by any means that Cornish should be
> different in this regard.
> You may, if you wish, reject KS utterly. But you should not be
> surprised if we resist your suggestion that we hamstring the best
> and most accurate orthography ever designed for Cornish by making
> its optimization and accuracy *optional*. I regret, very much,
> Eddie, that I have to defend KS against the suggestions you are
> making -- but the suggestions you are making would *damage* KS by
> making it an unreliable orthography.
>> Neither Michael nor Nicholas nor any other individuals in this
>> group are empowered to decide unilaterally what KS will be.
> Are you "empowered" to "unilaterally" decided to open closed issued
> because you disagree with them? And even now that you have tried to
> open it, and you have got push-back. We even re-visited the decision
> to use ë/ÿ instead of ê/ŷ -- and we got the same result, for the
> same technical and practical reasons.
>> Only the membership of this group can do so. If that were not so,
>> then this whole UdnFormScrefys and Spellyans process has been a
>> sham, a mere talking shop.
> Diacritical marks were also mandated in KS1. Indeed in much stronger
> language than our recommendation now, that diacritical marks are
> important and should be learned as a proper part of the words which
> have them.
>> Dres ethom akennow byner re bo lyeshes
>> Accenti non multiplicandi praeter necessitatem
> The accents used in KS are, as it happens, necessary. Each one that
> is used has a specific linguistic rationale.
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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